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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why puberty blocking is the new battleground in America’s culture wars - Times

23 replies

Igneococcus · 29/10/2021 07:07

Only skim-read it, since i need to get ready for work, but it seems there is a lot in it, including the surgeons who recently raised concerns:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bfe2df66-37f1-11ec-b83a-bd8490b9f48d?shareToken=4a9d68ba3b77250b4b262618ef04d7f5

OP posts:
EmpressaurusWitchDoesntBurn · 29/10/2021 07:18

There is a lot in it, & the comments are well worth reading too.

The writer’s sympathy appears to be with the trans side (the phrase ‘anti-trans’ appears quite a bit) but it’s still a pretty informative article, & looks like he was aiming to be impartial.

OperationDessertStorm · 29/10/2021 07:56

The comments on the times articles are getting so strong!

Whatwouldscullydo · 29/10/2021 08:04

I'm.yet to see the answer to several questions re puberty blockers.

If kids apparently know from.2/3 years old then why do they suddenly need this extra time at puberty to decide ? Which is it?

Why, if adults can just make a declaration with no changes being made, do kids need urgent access to puberty blockers ?

Why are they still sold as a pause when all the research shows that 98 percent go on to the cross sex hormones.

FrancescaContini · 29/10/2021 08:08

@Whatwouldscullydo

I'm.yet to see the answer to several questions re puberty blockers.

If kids apparently know from.2/3 years old then why do they suddenly need this extra time at puberty to decide ? Which is it?

Why, if adults can just make a declaration with no changes being made, do kids need urgent access to puberty blockers ?

Why are they still sold as a pause when all the research shows that 98 percent go on to the cross sex hormones.

Excellent questions 👌
Gncq · 29/10/2021 08:08

Why are they still sold as "reversible" when they aren't.

It's criminal, the whole "trans kid" industry. Everyone involved should be locked up.

LessthanJurassicPark · 29/10/2021 08:13

The comments are great, especially those of BritishKashmiriGirl who raises a good point about the potential application of puberty blockers in cultures that actively prefer boys.

Gncq · 29/10/2021 08:13

the treatment brings desperately needed relief for children enduring dysphoria, who suffer from disproportionately high rates of depression and suicide. A study last year found a significant drop in rates of suicidal thoughts among teenagers who received puberty blockers over those who did not.

This paragraph is in it when the truth is far more nuanced, this is parroted hyperbole.

Whatwouldscullydo · 29/10/2021 08:17

They have to go through it eventually though so surely it would he better going trough it with your peers as opposed to after they have all finished

Gncq · 29/10/2021 08:17

Many on both sides of the argument welcome a renewed discussion about puberty blockers, admitting that the sensitivity of the issue, the strident opposition of conservative voices

Hardly anyone I know who is against puberty blockers is "conservative" fgs.

We're not "right wing bigots" we're concerned mums, green environmentalists, lifelong lefties except over this, charitable to vulnerable groups.
Quit mislabelling us.

BigHuff · 29/10/2021 08:20

From the article: "The American College Health Association found that the number of students raised as girls but identifying as transgender has soared from 1 in 2,000 in 2008 to 1 in 20 today."

1 in 20?!

I guess maybe it's plausible - teachers I know report having on average one or two trans-identifying kids (well, girls) in each class, which would tally. Somehow seeing it written out as 1 in 20 is more shocking.

LessthanJurassicPark · 29/10/2021 08:20

Does TRAs ever ask the question why it is overwhelmingly teenage girls who wish to transition yet it is overwhelmingly older women who are against puberty blockers? There is no overwhelm of older women wishing to become men now that transition is easier.

Because the truth is we know what it’s like to fear puberty. We’ve all had moments when we’ve wanted to identify out of the sexual objectification that we know is coming our way and when we simply don’t identify with the social trappings that come with being female.

Does no one look at those numbers and think that something must be off?

Whatwouldscullydo · 29/10/2021 08:25

Does no one look at those numbers and think that something must be off?

No one also seems to twig that what affected now middle aged males now affects preteen girls. And we are aupoosed to think.its exactly the same?

What can little girls and middle aged males possibly have in common that they both apparently need ( although the males never actually received it wheh they were kidd some jist like to say they wish they had ) the same medication

Truthlikeness · 29/10/2021 08:35

Puberty blockers are horrific, toxic drugs. There is an abudance of evidence about how harmful they have been to the women who were prescribed them for endometriosis and precious puberty. It ruins lives. The only way they can be considered appropriate for children is by spinning the trans suicide myth.

Whatwouldscullydo · 29/10/2021 08:37

They stopped giving them to sex offenders in prison.

Why are kids getting worse treatment and less rights to healthy fulfilling future sex lives than sex offenders?

Whitefire · 29/10/2021 09:01

Really interesting article, though the 'anti-trans' usage was probably unnecessary. US youth are being used as a Trojan horse though.

Whatwouldscullydo · 29/10/2021 09:16

What did you perceived as anti trans.

Trans children should be in receipt of the same levels/standards of safeguarding and medical care as all the other children.

WarriorN · 29/10/2021 09:17

Bowers et al have reversed ferret as they're expecting a lot of litigation. Plus Jazz will never orgasm and has had a lot of issues.

I saw on twitter somewhere that a number of detransitioners in the US are starting cases against their hcps who gave v little gatekeeping.

ScreamingMeMeSawUs · 29/10/2021 09:37

Has this from The Economist been poated before?

Anatomy of a scandal

Opinion on the use of puberty blockers in America is turning

Even members of the World Professional Association for Transgender Health have some concerns

www.economist.com/united-states/2021/10/16/opinion-on-the-use-of-puberty-blockers-in-america-is-turning

Whatsnewpussyhat · 29/10/2021 10:17

Does TRAs ever ask the question why it is overwhelmingly teenage girls who wish to transition

They know why. That's the point. Adult males using easily manipulated young females to push their MRA agenda. Young lesbians being used as collateral damage. Young girls being used to further their own oppression!

The vast majority of females with a trans identity are teenagers. The vast majority of males with a trans identity are over 25
Yet we are meant to pretend that the two groups are the same, with the same motivations.

If you separated or removed the teens from the equation you would see a very different picture than the one adult male TRA are so desperate to portray.

And yes, none of them want to answer the question of why children need all these horrific drugs and surgeries whilst the adult males can simply utter the words "I am a woman"

Larryyourwaiter · 29/10/2021 10:51

I know someone who is currently hell bent on getting puberty blockers for her teenage trans daughter because puberty is ‘traumatic’ and they are ‘fully reversible’.
More needs to highlight the dangers of these drugs.

I’ve had some minor issues with my own DD. Puberty is horrible, I tell her so. It’s not nice, it’s something we can’t stop but we can try and do some things to make it easier. Of course is nicer staying a pre-pubescent child (I suspect what many of these children want, not to be boys, just not to have puberty). I don’t know if the issue of girls going through puberty earlier might be an issue as western diets have improved, maybe we aren’t mentally ready enough.

Truthlikeness · 29/10/2021 12:59

@Larryyourwaiter

I know someone who is currently hell bent on getting puberty blockers for her teenage trans daughter because puberty is ‘traumatic’ and they are ‘fully reversible’. More needs to highlight the dangers of these drugs.

I’ve had some minor issues with my own DD. Puberty is horrible, I tell her so. It’s not nice, it’s something we can’t stop but we can try and do some things to make it easier. Of course is nicer staying a pre-pubescent child (I suspect what many of these children want, not to be boys, just not to have puberty). I don’t know if the issue of girls going through puberty earlier might be an issue as western diets have improved, maybe we aren’t mentally ready enough.

Show her this -
Whatwouldscullydo · 29/10/2021 14:48

I’ve had some minor issues with my own DD. Puberty is horrible, I tell her so. It’s not nice, it’s something we can’t stop but we can try and do some things to make it easier. Of course is nicer staying a pre-pubescent child (I suspect what many of these children want, not to be boys, just not to have puberty). I don’t know if the issue of girls going through puberty earlier might be an issue as western diets have improved, maybe we aren’t mentally ready enough

I think we have covered alot on these boards about educating children aviut their bodies, and ensuring language is clear etc but maybe in some ways we do need to go back to basics amd In fact educate the patents a little too.

We see it alot on MN, just small things like parents feeling feeling kids are too young fir X Y Z. Deciding bras are too padded when in fact they are just moulded. Arbitrary age cut offs for bras/crop tops etc not based on the needs of the child but based on adult interpretations of the meaning behind what are in fact just functional items. A 9 yr old child with a bra and periods is still a child. The behaviour of predatory men and boys when these things happen is not a reason to drug a healthy child who's body is developing in a normal healthy way . And it shouldn't change the way you feel abiut your child either she's not " becoming a woman " or anything like that she's still a child. And will be til she's 18 regardless of how her body develops.

We should be preparing them and helping support them.throught here times not affirming their body is doing something wrong because parebts cant cope with the idea of their baby growing up. Parents should have had these conversations before it happens and get iver their own hang ups rather than administering these drugs to kids who are of a natural age.

AnyOldPrion · 29/10/2021 17:48

The 24-year-old woman “detransitioned” after surgery to become a man, and sued an NHS gender clinic, claiming that she was steered down a medical route when she was too young to make an informed choice

Untrue. Keira did not sue the clinic.

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