Do Women Need Male "Allies"?

[BuffysBigSister]

My company has been dragged kicking & screaming into Equality, Diversity & Inclusion. They have a very poor pay gap but to give them credit they are trying to improve matters. They are having a Male Allyship Panel this month and the invitation states that "gender inclusion programmes work better when men are engaged"

The wording is provoking me to send a response along the lines of "men should sit down and shut up for 5 fucking minutes" but I sense that may be provocative.

What do you think about "allyship" - not just in relation to men/women but generally. Isn't just another chance for men to speak on behalf of other people? Please share positive & negative as I want to attend the event and try to give constructive feedback (with a side serving of sarcasm of course)

Would I have sat on a panel?

Hell no! Best is for those in the group to say what they think helps and many anecdotes etc.

Who has deemed these 3 men to be you know. Inspirational allies. I wonder.

I don't know if women as a whole 'need' male allies, but if you are working in a company with a big gender pay gap then you are probably going to need senior men on board, because they are the ones who have set up and perpetuated this gap.

So if they are promoting men over women, penalising women for parenting, recruiting in their own image or any of the BS that happens in companies, and currently hold the power, then women can't change that by themselves.

Of course, the next question is 'what is allyship?'

If it's sitting around chatting about what male characteristics women need to adopt to get promoted, for example, then it's not worth 5 minutes of your time. If it's active listening and 'how can we amplify the voices of women and bring about change' then it might be OK.

Please do report back!

The word "ally" would put me off no matter who was on the panel. But it would be difficult to make a change in most companies without including men. It can also be very useful to understand how others see the same situation.

After plenty of years working, in my industry at least, I'm fairly sure I have a pretty good handle on how most men see this, and d&I stuff in general..!

Definitely women need male allies. They hire me, promote me, listen when I say that webinar content was great but what a manel- 8 people across the sessions and every single one a white male.

In non work life we need it too. It’s the blokes who tell someone at the pub to piss off. It’s my husband Shari the parenting role with me as a role model to our boys. Etc etc.

I'd prefer non-biased pro-science colleagues rather than 'allys'.

I was originally an LGBT ally, until I heard what that implied for women and same-sex attracted people. I have some rainbow things to burn at some point.

*allies

Sorry haven't rtft but isn't this an opportunity for education? To try to get males to understand just how prominent male privilege is, and what they can do to challenge it.

My ever-so-progressive BIL was always very uncomfortable when DSis and I vented our spleen about TRAs and the transgender movement. He was coming at the argument from a male (privileged) background. When DSis talked to him rationally about how and why this threatens women's rights he began to understand why we were so critical.

I'm sorry if that's simplistic; I lurk on the feminism boards purely to educate myself usually.

The thing is the actual men who've actually done something actual for women don't describe themselves this way.

I still know a bloke who was a stranger in a pub when I met him; helped me out with a wanker handsy gobshite. He would look at me like I had two heads if I called him a feminist ally. But he was one of about three men in my entire life that's helped when I was sexually harassed in public.

The 'feminist allies' I've met have been self-aggrandizing at best, abusers at worst. In it for the applause or to shag naïve lib fems.

@JellySaurus

It's 3 men and 1 woman which I think is fair as they are specifically discussing how to be a male ally

Alternatively it's 3 men whose voices are not only louder than the one woman's, but who are also able to outvote her on a subject they have no intimate knowledge of.

I think male allies (who are true allies) are absolutely vital. But I think the panel should be at least 50% female- otherwise all you have is a group of men talking about something they don't really understand and patting themselves on the back for being so knowledgeable. What is the relative seniority of the woman on the panel compared to the men?

My previous employer set up a group supposedly aimed at looking at barriers to women in the industry and particularly helping retain female employees after they had children. This could have been really useful. But unfortunately a man who was rather senior in the company (and aiming to be more so) decided to head it up- on the basis that it showed that women were being taken seriously. He dominated the first meeting by mansplaining how he coped as a lone parent (whilst actually his ex did most of the child care and he just looked after her every other weekend) then concluded that basically everything was fine, just some women lose their ambition when they have DC.

Surely the panel should be 3:1 female to male as the man can listen to the shared experiences and then take to other men to help them understand?

Put 3 men together and they'll talk about how they perceive the 1 woman (reflecting yet again the major mansplaining issues in large organisations).

You need to be really careful full stop.

I've seen so much of this. And been on a committee at a small company etc.

Thing is when it comes to women's stuff people feel much happier to share their random views/ issues with it etc etc.

You don't tend to get this at work groups around LGBT+ or ethnic minorities etc. People outside thinking yeah I'll just say what my problems are with all this with an audience etc.

Anyway. Yes need to be very careful. In my career I've come across a fair few women who were very firm that feminism was rubbish and women need to stfu and get on with it. And if it's sexist etc just hide of rhino and push through etc.

We had a high profile woman on gender equality (sigh) panel and she spent 10 mins going on about how it's all bollocks and women these days are weak...

Another vv high up gave a good long natter about how 2 weeks mat leave was a great choice (worked for her but .. only female on board saying it not a great message!).

Just remembered.

The best panel we had was one with women from across the org who were not super high up. Talking about their experiences in male dominated industry, how they came to it, really moving stories about women in family etc who inspired them. Some women from elsewhere in world growing up different challenges. Really interesting and inspiring.

We need to hear from women. Full stop.

And we need men to GAF because they hold the power etc.