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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Anti-woke headteacher urges peers not to ‘crumble’ before student activists

72 replies

PandorasMailbox · 24/10/2021 14:14

Apologies for the lack of a share token.

I don't think this has already been posted (I couldn't see it anywhere)

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/23/anti-woke-headteacher-urges-peers-not-crumble-student-activists/

OP posts:
PandorasMailbox · 24/10/2021 14:16

Just been told how to remove the paywall Grin

12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2F2021%2F10%2F23%2Fanti-woke-headteacher-urges-peers-not-crumble-student-activists%2F

OP posts:
MrsOvertonsWindow · 24/10/2021 14:22

We are a proud feminist school and I am unapologetic about it

Applauds.

Sillydoggy · 24/10/2021 14:26

How shockingly sensible! It is a relief to hear a head teacher prepared to say this in public.

HazelCarbyFan · 24/10/2021 14:32

What is feminist about refusing to teach global history, the impact of the slave trade, or the contributions of Black women to history?

334bu · 24/10/2021 14:35

However, why should the school curriculum not embrace the whole of society? How many English Literature students know of the existence of Aphra Benn? How many people managed to get a pass in History exams without learning about the right for female suffrage? How many people know nothing about the Irish immigrants who built the canals and railways all across the UK? How many students learn about the Windrush generation and their contribution to post War Britain? How many female artists,writers, poets etc have been ignored by our educators?How many of our Welsh, Irish or Scottish students learn anything about their nations' histories?

334bu · 24/10/2021 14:36

fight for female suffrage

Cismyfatarse · 24/10/2021 14:38

@334bu Agreed. But much of what is taught is determined by forces beyond the school (exam boards / government dictat).

Isn't it fabulous that she wants to centre women and girls in an all girls' school?

HazelCarbyFan · 24/10/2021 14:39

Unless those women and girls are Black in which case we shouldn’t “bow” to teaching their histories or ideas lest we be “woke.”

ChristinaXYZ · 24/10/2021 14:41

@HazelCarbyFan

What is feminist about refusing to teach global history, the impact of the slave trade, or the contributions of Black women to history?
You can do that without all the intersectionalism/white privilege politics that comes with BLM. Schools are still full of all this as well as some of the Stonewall stuff despite the DFE saying don't teach it as fact. It is like I said on the thread about Pritti Patel ministers says we want or don't want something from schools or the police of the NHS with regard to the culture war stuff but teachers/police/NHS staff just ignore them. there is no oversight and no consequences for staff peddling their politics onto people who are in their care to be educated, protected from crime, or nursed back to health not lectured or dictated to or oppressed because it suits the police officer/teacher or nurse.

It is the sea we all swim through this wokeness. I noticed Katharine Birbalsingh says her staff have ethos training once a week because she is fighting what they get dripped into their ears and eyes through social media too.

This needs to happen to all schools/the NHS/police too.

womaninatightspot · 24/10/2021 14:42

@334bu

However, why should the school curriculum not embrace the whole of society? How many English Literature students know of the existence of Aphra Benn? How many people managed to get a pass in History exams without learning about the right for female suffrage? How many people know nothing about the Irish immigrants who built the canals and railways all across the UK? How many students learn about the Windrush generation and their contribution to post War Britain? How many female artists,writers, poets etc have been ignored by our educators?How many of our Welsh, Irish or Scottish students learn anything about their nations' histories?
Apart from Aphra Benn I learnt all of that at my bog standard state high school in the 90s in History class. My Mother whinged about it not being proper history
PaleBlueMoonlight · 24/10/2021 14:47

HazelCarbyFan
is feminist about refusing to teach global history, the impact of the slave trade, or the contributions of Black women to history?

You can do that without all the intersectionalism/white privilege politics that comes with BLM.

This. You can just teach it, from all the different perspectives of those involved, because it is important.

334bu · 24/10/2021 14:50

Great that she wants to centre women and girls in an all girls school but this can't be done if the school curriculum is mostly centred on the achievements of white men. Do you think the girls in that school know about Aphra Benn? Do they know about Barbara Castle? Do they know about the women who worked in the cotton mills? Do they know about the women scientists whose achievements were appropriated by men? Do they know about the female musicians, artists, poets etc of the past? Do they know about the immigrant women working in sweat shops?

HazelCarbyFan · 24/10/2021 14:51

Intersectionality - a theory created by Black feminists - recognizes that treating “Black” and “woman” as two separate and not-interlocking categories ignores that Black women experience both racism and sexism. Crenshaw begins the paper in which she outlines this theory with examining lawsuits where Black women sued employers over discrimination. The cases were dismissed because there were Black men and White women in the roles so they argued Black women could not therefore be experiencing racism or sexism, ignoring the specific ways Black women experience both forces.

She then goes on to review the history of Black feminism and Black women’s movements, looking at how, for example in the Civil Rights movement, Black women’s contributions were sidelined in favour of male leadership. Meanwhile, in the feminist movement, Black women were sidelined implicitly for White women’s issues. She examines particularly the history of sexual assault against Black women throughout enslavement and how understanding enslavement and racial oppression requires a lens of gender as well.

Why shouldn’t people learn this, particularly Black girls? Have you ever read Crenshaw’s essay? It’s widely available and can be read here: chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1052&context=uclf

Please read and explain what you disagree with in this essay, and why Black feminist theory should not be taught to all women, but particularly Black girls who need to understand how patriarchy works as it affects them specifically.

334bu · 24/10/2021 14:53

Apart from Aphra Benn I learnt all of that at my bog standard state high school in the 90s in History class. My Mother whinged about it not being proper history
Glad to hear it, well done your school.

Kokeshi123 · 24/10/2021 14:53

How many English Literature students know of the existence of Aphra Benn?
Are you kidding? She was studied intensively at my state school in the 1990s. The Rover was one of the works I did for GCSE!

How many people managed to get a pass in History exams without learning about the right for female suffrage?
This was studied too. Obviously.

How many people know nothing about the Irish immigrants who built the canals and railways all across the UK?
We had a whole unit on the canals at my middle school, and the fact that many people who worked on the canals were Irish was of course taught.

How many students learn about the Windrush generation and their contribution to post War Britain?

We didn't study any post WW2 history at my schools, but I can guarantee that this is taught anywhere where post-WW2 history is taught. Without exception.

How many of our Welsh, Irish or Scottish students learn anything about their nations' histories?
Have you actually seen what's taught in most Scottish schools? The history syllabus at most CfE schools tends to be so Scottish it routinely inspires complaints from parents who ask for a more balanced and global perspective.

Ireland is a completely different country, and of course the history curriculum there is focused on Ireland.

You seem to be having a strange argument inside your own brain with a fictional school curriculum that doesn't actually exist.

TambourineofRighteousness · 24/10/2021 15:01

@334bu

However, why should the school curriculum not embrace the whole of society? How many English Literature students know of the existence of Aphra Benn? How many people managed to get a pass in History exams without learning about the right for female suffrage? How many people know nothing about the Irish immigrants who built the canals and railways all across the UK? How many students learn about the Windrush generation and their contribution to post War Britain? How many female artists,writers, poets etc have been ignored by our educators?How many of our Welsh, Irish or Scottish students learn anything about their nations' histories?
I can definitely confirm, from personal experience, that there is very strong focus on Scottish history in Scotland for several decades.

We also covered all the subjects listed above in my state schools several decades ago.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 24/10/2021 15:02

If you read the article it's clear that she's asking for a more pedagogical approach
she does not believe there was sufficient debate before education institutions implemented wide-reaching changes to syllabuses
I just don’t think it’s sensible for schools to just volte face immediately in response to a big news story and start making big, big changes
..we want to be very supportive to anyone questioning their gender identity, but I am not going to pretend we are not a girls’ school and tell all my staff to stop calling them girls

We need educators like her who think consider and (if you read what she actually said) want to encourage critical thinking and debate.
And I'd be fairly confident 334bu that the girls in that school actually do know about the history of women in politics, science, the arts etc along with the appropriation of women's thoughts, ideas, research etc. It's a girls schools with a positive approach to women and achievement.

CorrBlimeyGG · 24/10/2021 15:03

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 24/10/2021 15:05

Oh look - Corrblimey's plopped another fake fact and nasty comment about a woman on a thread. What a surprise.

HazelCarbyFan · 24/10/2021 15:06

Okay. So it it’s normal to cover global histories and include the histories of African people in the UK, then what is dangerously woke about students asking for this material? You can’t both claim it’s routine and well-established and that also the minute Black people raise these issues it’s suddenly a threat to the order of the school system.

Nothing in the examples given in the article about teaching wider histories and expanding the curriculum is objectionable. If this wasn’t framed both as “woke” and then coupled with some “and we will proudly say girl!” stuff, no-one here would be buying into the idea that this is “refreshing.” There is nothing good about a head teacher sneering at the teaching of basic history just because Black students asked for some consideration.

GCmiddle · 24/10/2021 15:16

My daughter is in Yr 10, doing history GCSE and they are not covering women's suffrage in any depth at all, a fact she has complained about. She would love to focus on that, as well as Nazi Germany and the US black civil rights movement.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 24/10/2021 15:18

I think it's a good thing that educators ask for pedagogical debates about the curriculum and educational theory. I have a problem with those who simply accept the latest pronouncements from a variety of political groups without enquiry. We are seeing in relation to sexual politics, that following the demands of certain lobby groups is not working out well for women and children.
Black students (and other groups) are entitled to advocate for change and their views to be heard with respect and to be considered as part of all institutional change.
That's how I interpreted what she was saying.

ChloeCrocodile · 24/10/2021 15:20

The problem isn't that the content changes suggested are objectionable. The problem is that when you make rushed and sweeping changes to the curriculum the changes are usually done badly and can be detrimental to the students.

HazelCarbyFan · 24/10/2021 15:40

So there is no need, then, to frame the students asking for this as “woke activists” as the article does, and then suggest that students advocating for these very reasonable and necessary changes are in need of some kind of smack down. A measured educational debate about implementation should not include name-calling and marginalizing those making suggestions for change.

Using “woke” as a smear indiscriminately to mean things you don’t like is neither intellectually rigorous nor helpful in this debate. It’s particularly concerning when referring to Black people as the term originated within Black culture to mean being aware of Black politics and consciousness. When white people adopt it as a sneer it’s unpleasant. Can we not discuss without instantly labeling everything lazily as “woke” without any definition, sense of meaning, or specificity?

HazelCarbyFan · 24/10/2021 15:45

I suspect “teacher agrees that curricula changes are necessary, but advises that they be implemented according to best educational practices in curricular development” just doesn’t draw the same clicks as “head teacher won’t bow down to woke students.” There should be no outrage here.