Andrew Sullivan: The Betrayal of our Gay Inheritance

[ScreamingMeMeSawUs]

Food for thought here.

"How has the new trans left come to resemble the old religious right?"

...

"Anti-gay forces, hegemonic for centuries, were just like these trans activists. They were just as intent on suppressing and stigmatizing magazines, shows, and movies they believed were harmful. They too targeted individual artists and writers for personal destruction. They too believed that movies and comedy needed to be reined in order to prevent social harm. They protested in front of movie theaters. They tried to get shows canceled. And if you’d marched in any gay demo or Pride in the 1990s, you’d always be prepared to confront a grimacing Christianist yelling “Repent! Repent!” in your face."

"In fact, it’s hard not to see the trans far left as a farcical replay of the Religious Right of the past. "

andrewsullivan.substack.com/p/the-betrayal-of-our-gay-inheritance-6de

Repent motherfucker repent!!!

I thought the word mother was now banned? Or is it allowed when it is used as a slur only?

"The capture of the gay rights movement by humor-free, fragile products of the social justice industrial complex is not just terrible PR for all of us. It’s awful politics. They are not even trying to persuade, debate, or make reasoned arguments — as we did relentlessly in the marriage movement. They do not engage and invite critics, as we did. They try to destroy them. Instead of arguments, they tweet out slogans in all caps — TRANS WOMEN ARE WOMEN — as if they’re citing a Biblical text. And the act of persuasion, the key to any liberal democracy, is, for them, an unjust imposition of “emotional labor.” So much easier to coerce."

"It also pains me to see the gay rights movement deploy what is in effect mob bullying as a tactic. That’s what these Twitter campaigns are all about. The way these fanatics have tried to turn one of the most successful and imaginative writers of our time, J.K. Rowling, into a hate object has been achieved by the foulest of language, elevated by the megaphone of social media. Yes: the very people most subject to bullying in childhood are now acting like bullies as adults."

I find this comparison to the religious right lazy especially in a UK context. Indeed I find the whole idea of the religious right being set up as the epitome of evil as repulsive. It condemns both those who are religious (but sit at any point on the political spectrum) and those who sit right of centre in politics. It sets the 'left' up as the good guys yet we have repeatedly seen in recent history that the left can be tyrannical. It was the left that burnt books and sent academics to work camps to fix thinking in China.

I hope he's repented (motherfucker) his recent view that putting rapists, sexually-motivated murderers and men who almost decapitated their wives into women's prisons is the humane thing to do; or is he only concerned about transactivism now he's noticed it affects gay men? Please join all the dots, Andrew.

This article is about the history of the US gay rights movement, his comments about the religious right are entirely correct and within context. Its an authentic piece written by someone who knows and understands the history of his own movement.

I have to admit I didn't read the article it so hadn't realised it was American and talking about American. The problem with just looking at quotes. Something I criticise others for

I hope he's repented (motherfucker) his recent view that putting rapists, sexually-motivated murderers and men who almost decapitated their wives into women's prisons is the humane thing to do
Where did he say this? The most recent thing I can find by Sullivan on this subject says:

women should not have to be imprisoned alongside trans women ... we’re not talking about regular trans people here; we’re talking about criminals, some sex offenders. Separate facilities for trans people is the sanest and least dangerous option. Laws like California’s, that came into force this year, and allow any man to self-identify as a trans woman and thereby transfer to a women’s jail, are putting women at risk. This is not a hypothetical, like restroom attacks. Rapes have already happened.
andrewsullivan.substack.com/p/a-truce-proposal-in-the-trans-wars-c49
That seems unambiguous.

He wrote a tweet in April where he referred to California’s decision to allow males into women’s prisons as a “humane but risky experiment”.

@KimThomas

He wrote a tweet in April where he referred to California’s decision to allow males into women’s prisons as a “humane but risky experiment”.

Maybe he went away and actually thought about it? I was one of many pointing out on Twitter that he'd forgotten about the support humans...

Thanks KimThomas.

well, maybe he has repented :)

I don't think that tweet meant he thought it was a good idea. I suspect he thought that trying to be sensitive to the plight of transwomen in prison was humane - kind - but that it was risky for the women there. Which suggests that he believes there may well be issues for the women.

It's not a strong statement but not really seeing it as a great solution.

I like Sullivan on a lot of political discussions, but I think he has a strong attachment to the sort of gay man's culture that can be, and has been, kind of condescending to women, and he maybe doesn't always realize that some of the attitudes he is describing are not totally coming out of left field. I'm not saying he approves of that necessarily, I think for example he was always trying to persuade with his arguments on same-sex marriage. But I am not convinced that over the last 10 years the gay rights movement at the activist level was so separate from the trans movement in approach, which is why groups like SW were able to link them.

@Blessex

Repent motherfucker repent!!!

I thought the word mother was now banned? Or is it allowed when it is used as a slur only?

That was my first thought, too! 😂

I hadn't thought of your interpretation, Lobster - that he might be describing it as well-intentioned but potentially misguided.

He was discussing with Jesse Singal, though, iirc, and I definitely got the 'be kind girls' vibe.