Is anyone else fed up of being censored?

[TuppyTheDino]

I've had an account on Mumsnet for years but I've name changed for this. I'm tired of being censored by trans activists on social media. I had a Twitter account for other stuff but gradually got into the debate.

I was banned, despite trying to be respectful and polite whilst still making my point/s and was banned. I created a new account (and was banned). It put me off for a while, but I created a new account and within days it is shadowbanned so nobody can see or comment on anything I put out there. I don't hate trans people, I am worried about the erosion of women's rights

I'm so tired of it all. Why can't women speak? Why can't we have one small corner of the internet to talk about these issues without getting shut down or told to just be quiet. I am so sad and angry that women's voices are being shut down. I don't know what to do so I thought I would have a moan about it here.

I've had a Twitter account for many years but I never tweet. I follow lots of GC accounts. For a couple of months now I've noticed that if I 'like' a tweet the count goes down one instead of up. This only happens on GC tweets, never on other types of tweet.

You’re definitely not the only one I’m tired of not being able to speak freely.

You're in good company on here OP. While I have huge admiration for women who use twitter so effectively, it's a cess pit. Have you joined up with any of the women's groups doing so much effective campaigning?

@unwashedanddazed

I've had a Twitter account for many years but I never tweet. I follow lots of GC accounts. For a couple of months now I've noticed that if I 'like' a tweet the count goes down one instead of up. This only happens on GC tweets, never on other types of tweet.

This happens to me all the time. When I like tweets the count goes down.

Absolutely. Even when you are so careful with language and to stress the importance of your actual support to gender non conforming and the LGB community and when you have actual facts and science - somehow you’re still a dinosaur!

It weighs on my mind far too much.

Mollyollydolly I guessed it wasn't just me this is happening to. It seems such a petty, spiteful thing for Twitter to do. A like on a tweet is just about the tiniest vocalisation possible, but still has to be shut down.

Agreed. It is incredibly difficult to speak out. I left Twitter because of the pile-ons and the misogynistic rage but it doesn't seem much better on here. The starting position is that we GCs are assumed to be dangerous so our language has to be policed rigorously based on that assumption. We can't call out what we clearly see is behind this, the trashing of women's rights by bad actors, because, I've been told by MNHQ, that's making generalisations.

YANBU OP

This is why I don’t go on Twitter. For anywhere that claims to be a public agora for discussion the moderation should be even handed and conducted according to fair and open principles. On Twitter it is unashamedly sexist and also secretive in the methods it uses (eg the shadowbanning and manipulation of likes).
I personally think no public organisation or business with any credibility or claim to ethics should be on a social media platform that operates like this but that ship seems to have sailed.

'The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.'

~George Orwell

I am sick of it too OP. I’m speaking the truth here today:

Woman = adult human female
Man = adult human male

A trans woman is a man.
A trans man is a woman.

YANBU OP.

Yes, Twitter is mainly pointless. You spend so long twisting what you want to say - which is a polite, reasonable comment - into something tortuously acceptable and bland, that you just give up and can’t see the point in bothering.

Also, there can be the vilest posts eg the machete one, and you and hundreds of others report them, and yet they sit there untouched. However, make one of the holy elite ‘feel unsafe’ by saying the blandest, most harmless thing imaginable, and your tweet is deleted.

Nothing about it is due to fairness or common sense. It’s all an attempt at silencing - every single aspect of it. Women mustn’t dare to speak.

I never thought we’d be here after the previous progress we’ve made - but then, perhaps that’s why we are here? “Women - know your place”.

Twitter isn't a public agora, through - it's a private commercial company, so while it may claim to promote free speech, the reality is that they will only allow free speech that they deem acceptable. And since they're a commercial enterprise, what they deem acceptable will be based on popular opinion. Hence misogyny and cancellation is the norm there.

I personally think no public organisation or business with any credibility or claim to ethics should be on a social media platform that operates like this

This is a really interesting point, and it gives me hope that something can be done.

It's similar to the Stonewall issue - it's not Stonewall that's the problem, it's the fact that public bodies have unquestioning followed everything they say as gospel when it's merely one arguably misguided charity's view of how the world should be.

The benefits of social media are widely valued by public bodies as a way to build awareness and foster public engagement, but the notion that public bodies are relying on commercial enterprises with their own values to engage with the public (and therefore are only able to engage with taxpayers that Twitter and other commercial social media enterprises deem worthy of being heard) is the problem. And as stakeholders in public bodies, that's the bit we actually can do something about. Similar to the Stonewall issue.

From my experience of the corporate world, companies also rely on Twitter and social media as a benchmark of what consumers approve of and don't, so I think raising awareness of the fact that social media companies are entitled to their own agendas, but that companies rely solely on the voices they hear through those media as representing the general opinion of the public do so at their peril might also help in the long run.

Also, lots of random members of the public probably have GC tweets deleted all the time, because much of what gets deleted is just common sense and affects heaps of everyday issues. But if those people aren't aware of gender ideology issues and how mad things are, they're unlikely to make a fuss as they won't have realised the significance of the silencing and will just think "that's odd" and go back to posting about their hobby or whatever.

I think it makes sense to hold governments to account on this specifically from an Equality Act perspective (under the protected characteristics of sex and gender critical beliefs, plus sexual orientation where relevant).

Any more general objection about free speech would make for strange bedfellows (conspiracy theorists, fascists, etc) so I think it needs to focus on the Equality Act specifically to be helpful to women.

Also, I'd be interested to know why public bodies think it's ok to engage with taxpayers on platforms that routinely permit misogyny, as it means women aren't able to join in the conversation and engage with these public bodies without being exposed to that misogyny. It's tantamount to the NHS or the local council holding their public meetings in a male-only space, and saying women are allowed but doing nothing to protect them from the sexism they encounter, and then saying "well, we invited women, but they weren't interested in joining in the discussion". And that's obviously sex-based discrimination under the Equality Act too.

Yes, it’s fucking oppressive. I feel scared sometimes just liking posts and following GC people. When you have men posting pictures of guns and talking about lists of the women they are going to kill for using the women won’t wheesht hashtag.
Or posting about killing sprees at the school run. All the terfs must die stuff. Yet god forbid you try to safeguard single sex spaces.

It’s hard because there are good GC accounts and articles and people I like to follow and support on Twitter.

But it’s also a frightening and wearing place to be.

@Leafstamp

'The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.'

~George Orwell

I am sick of it too OP. I’m speaking the truth here today:

Woman = adult human female
Man = adult human male

A trans woman is a man.
A trans man is a woman.

QFT

Spinster is an alternative to Twitter. Women can speak freely there.
spinster.xyz/

Ovarit is similar to the Reddit platform. Another space where women aren't censored.
ovarit.com/

YANBU, OP.

Aye, I'm with you.

Women are prevented from speaking, silenced, ignored, disbelieved, censored, ridiculed, hunted, arrested, dismissed, belittled, Karenned, and talked over as a matter of course.

It is infuriating, but we know it happens and we have to find out ways to get beyond the sound barrier.

Twitter isn't a public agora, through - it's a private commercial company, so while it may claim to promote free speech, the reality is that they will only allow free speech that they deem acceptable.

Agreed. We're increasingly governed in such matters by a transnational oligarchy that has many influences in silicon valley.

The impact of this is that the absence of critical voices and women's voices is contributing to preference falsification and the parameters of the Overton Window.

It can also perpetuate cons/fraud (riffing off some research into leveraging what is known about that to reduce the impact of disinformation).

Goffman observed that all “marks” eventually come to understand that they have been defrauded. But strangely, they almost never complain or report the crime to the authorities. Why? Because, Goffman argues, admitting that you have been conned is so deeply shameful that “marks” experience it as a kind of social death – the painful end of one of the many social roles we all play.
…
Within those groups, we can pinpoint influential members who may be turning their backs on Covid denialism, and encourage them in their journey. We can message them offering support, particularly if our reference groups overlap – whether that means sharing the same home town, or practising the same faith. The more shared social space, the better. We might offer to back them up if they get trolled for expressing misgivings about Covid denialism. Or we could let them know that we would admire them for telling the truth.

Those people may not have a television audience of millions, but they nonetheless have the potential to act as “coolers” for those in their reference groups – both online and off. The higher their status within the groups, the more influence they will have in reconciling their fellow travellers to the reality of the pandemic, perhaps enabling them to rejoin society, or at least preventing them from endangering the rest of us.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/09/convince-anti-vaxxers

I've no idea how the above is possible if SM platforms keep banning some people because this reduces interaction and stops them gaining status where they can act as influencers. And, much as I think the ability to block and mute is much needed (especially by women) it does facilitate being in a bubble - which is why those crossover coolers are so necessary.

Agree with you completely.
And then consider that the internet is 99% porn (my made-up figure but you get the gist) and you know exactly where we stand in the pecking order.

Horrendous things left up on the internet but women talking.. OMG you can't have that!!!

@TuppyTheDino

I've had an account on Mumsnet for years but I've name changed for this. I'm tired of being censored by trans activists on social media. I had a Twitter account for other stuff but gradually got into the debate.

I was banned, despite trying to be respectful and polite whilst still making my point/s and was banned. I created a new account (and was banned). It put me off for a while, but I created a new account and within days it is shadowbanned so nobody can see or comment on anything I put out there. I don't hate trans people, I am worried about the erosion of women's rights

I'm so tired of it all. Why can't women speak? Why can't we have one small corner of the internet to talk about these issues without getting shut down or told to just be quiet. I am so sad and angry that women's voices are being shut down. I don't know what to do so I thought I would have a moan about it here.

You are aware it's against Twitter TOS to create new accounts to evade a ban? So yes of course if you do that you'll get banned again.

And, much as I think the ability to block and mute is much needed (especially by women) it does facilitate being in a bubble - which is why those crossover coolers are so necessary.

Yes, agreed.

The problem is that in order to protect themselves, women have to take themselves out of the conversation. For every person who'd see that as victim-blaming, there'll be a hundred more pointing out awful tweets that haven't been deleted in an attempt to deny women's experiences.

Covid Isolation hasn't helped with moving more interactions online where they are censored in line with the patriarchy, but the other issue is that women are always going to find it harder to be heard in a patriarchal society as they're statistically far less able to just drop everything and go out and organise because they're more likely to have caring and domestic responsibilities, etc.

So women can't highlight their marginalisation in the sex/gender debate because they're too marginalised by their sex to do so!

i think the point to remember with twitter is that a pretty small number of people actually work there.

Dana McCallum is a man charged with the vicious rape of his estranged ex wife (he since pleaded guilty to one count of domestic violence and one count of false imprisonment and the rape charge was dropped). he also identifies as a woman and is referred to as 'one of the geniuses behind twitter'.

www.womenarehuman.com/trans-identified-twitter-engineer-rapes-his-wife-dana-mccallum/

Although I believe he no longer works at twitter i would be astonished if he hasn't left a lasting impression, and this is clearly reflected in the moderation policies.

twitter is in no way a free speech platform, and is quite within its rights not to be. the problem, as pointed out by a previous poster, is with organisations regarding it as a barometer of public opinion, when it is in fact carefully curated

So women can't highlight their marginalisation in the sex/gender debate because they're too marginalised by their sex to do so!

Yes.

And then Twitter and newspaper comments are replete with faux-outraged women and men saying, "Where are/were the feminists? Why didn't they say anything?"

At some point, will users of popular parenting forums find themselves saying the same thing and never think about the number of times that threads were moved from a high-traffic part of a site to a 'naughty step' or they voted to split a high-traffic point of entry to neutralise its drawing power?

NecessaryScene posted something about Robert Lifton and Thought Reform on another thread. A brief read around has brought the shock of the familiar but is an interesting way to look at what is happening to women on social media platforms.

In the book, Lifton outlines the "Eight Criteria for Thought Reform":

Milieu Control. This involves the control of information and communication both within the environment and, ultimately, within the individual, resulting in a significant degree of isolation from society at large.

Mystical Manipulation. The manipulation of experiences that appears spontaneous but is, in fact, planned and orchestrated by the group or its leaders to demonstrate divine authority, spiritual advancement, or some exceptional talent or insight that sets the leader and/or group apart from humanity, and that allows a reinterpretation of historical events, scripture, and other experiences. Coincidences and happenstance oddities are interpreted as omens or prophecies.

Demand for Purity. The world is viewed as black and white and the members are constantly exhorted to conform to the ideology of the group and strive for perfection. The induction of guilt and/or shame is a powerful control device used here.

Confession. Sins, as defined by the group, are to be confessed either to a personal monitor or publicly to the group. There is no confidentiality; members' "sins," "attitudes," and "faults" are discussed and exploited by the leaders.

Sacred Science. The group's doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. Truth is not to be found outside the group. The leader, as the spokesperson for God or all humanity, is likewise above criticism.

Loading the Language. The group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways so that often the outside world does not understand. This jargon consists of thought-terminating clichés, which serve to alter members' thought processes to conform to the group's way of thinking.

Doctrine over person. Members' personal experiences are subordinated to the sacred science and any contrary experiences must be denied or reinterpreted to fit the ideology of the group.

Dispensing of existence. The group has the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not. This is usually not literal but means that those in the outside world are not saved, unenlightened, unconscious, and must be converted to the group's ideology. If they do not join the group or are critical of the group, then they must be rejected by the members. Thus, the outside world loses all credibility. In conjunction, should any member leave the group, he or she must be rejected also.[3]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_Reform_and_the_Psychology_of_Totalism