Trans cyclist Natalie Van Gogh retires from women’s cycling at 47

[CatsOperatingInGangs]

I know Laurel Hubbard springs to mind when we talk about older trans athletes in women’s sport but Van Gogh has been competing in women’s elite cycling for 16 years since transitioning.

Van Gogh avoids scrutiny mainly because women’s cycling is not covered much in the UK unless it’s the Olympics. It’s an incredibly tough life carving out a career in women’s cycling as there not much money and less opportunities for women as there’s fewer teams than in the men’s category.

It makes me sad to think how many women have been denied a place in their own sport due to NVG being included.

cyclingtips.com/2021/10/i-am-just-natalie-not-natalie-the-transgender-cyclist/

"This is all down to age. Generally, they say that I am still good enough but they also say that I am too old. I can understand this line of thinking. You don’t fit in the image of the team anymore. You are the odd one out." Hmmm.....

A few years ago I read a very good article about international cycling teams and competitions and it laid out how one particular team made up of trans competitors were advantaged in terms of accumulating points etc. I've searched high and low for it because I always think it would be helpful in the sport conversation but never been able to find it again, so I think sadly it must have been on gendertrender.

I wonder what age women typically retire from elite cycling?

Yes, I feel for the women who put their heart and soul into a sport, really pushing their bodies to the limit, only to lose to someone whose male body can easily outdo them. Obviously.

NVG never competed as a man, but took up cycling after transition at 31. In that interview NVG says In race situations nasty remarks are down to rivalry. I haven’t words to comment on that.

I’ve got a lot of words after reading that article but they will all get me banned from MN.

There are rules and regulations for transgender people in sports. In short, transgender women have to prove their testosterone level is below a certain limit. After a full transition, the adrenal cortex is the only organ producing testosterone and an individual’s levels are very low. This means that all of the cis-women in the current pro peloton have a higher testosterone level than Van Gogh does.

It's not all about the T-level (e.g., twitch fibres, bone density, VO2 max, size of CV system) but I'd still be interested in seeing the validation and quantification of the claim in that final sentence.

There’s absolutely no way they know the T levels of the other athletes.

Hmm.... Curious timing to retire seeing as it's been well published recently that the IOC guidelines on testosterone are not fit for purpose.

Wow, Van Gogh must be an exceptional athlete to take up a sport after age 30 then keep going at top level long after most have retired.

Luckily everyone knows that transwomen have no advantage over women, so it’s all down to Van Gogh’s natural talent, hard work, and determination.

Oh.. I wonder.... have they been pressured to leave so that another male cyclist can take their place. I wonder too if someone's mother will pop up now and confirm this.

You know.... make room for the younger model to come through.

What a shame though that this transitioned male has not the self awareness to look at their comments through the lens of female competitors. They will ALWAYS be Natalie, the trans cyclist. Because that is their reality regardless of what they insist others believe.

“I work with juniors …. and they don’t even blink anymore.”

Hey Natalie. Could this be another career move?

Indeed alias.

Like the 'grandmother' (50 something) rugby player in Australia playing against young women who hates being reminder that not one woman of that age is playing at that age. Due to menopause and bone density, due to fitness, due to many issues. That person simply cannot accept any reminder. Of course, that male also was a career sportsperson and came into the game with a fitness probably higher than any woman on that team of any age. It is a regional team though and not high profile so it gets little coverage except their avid twitter activism.

@CatsOperatingInGangs

There’s absolutely no way they know the T levels of the other athletes.

Are you suggesting that that final line is an unevidenced assertion with no grounding in any reality-based data collection and analysis?

When newstories are online so it's possible to add in notes in an elegant fashion, I'd rather like a disclaimer that reminds everyone that none of the assertions have been fact-checked, far less validated.

I'd agree with Helleofabore that the fact that one has convinced oneself that one is supremely talented and hard-working rather than advantaged by dint of a sex class and its associated puberty is self-affirmation and not any form of independent validation of one's perspective.

libertyfarmboots

Is it this team?

www.facebook.com/TNWCTeam/

Are you suggesting that that final line is an unevidenced assertion with no grounding in any reality-based data collection and analysis

Is that what used to be called a lie?

@andyoldlabour
I find this so depressing. On one hand, as many people on possible put there on bikes loving it is great, but it's just so depressing seeing the podium shots. How long before none of the winners are female? What I would get behind is a separate category in the results and then surely they would feel more of a sense of achievement beating folk on a level playing field. I used to love mountain bike racing, how many good women juniors would give up thinking they weren't good enough?

Have personally raced Lauren Jeska, fell running is great as everyone wears more or less the same thing and starts at the same time. I really object to loosing a place to Lauren, I had my period that day which really just is the icing on the cake if how u fair it is. I really hope all the reports coming out of sporting bodies will make some grounds to protecting women's sport otherwise there's no point!

The podium shot is utterly depressing.

I totally support the right of this individual to live as she chooses, with the name, pronouns, and role in society that she wishes. But seeing her standing on a podium head and shoulders above women who compete without her physiological advantages...

It's wrong. It's not fair.

@RufustheBadgeringReindeer

Are you suggesting that that final line is an unevidenced assertion with no grounding in any reality-based data collection and analysis

Is that what used to be called a lie?

It's difficult to know if NVG is deeply into this immersive fiction which has been encouraged by those close to the team (but not by the rivals whose perspective NVG sets aside) and it all seems completely true. Or this has been said to NVG and it didn't occur to NVG that this might be a comforting part of the immersive fiction.

Failing that, it could be NVG displaying a Frankfurtian approach to matters of truth and caring about it.

www2.csudh.edu/ccauthen/576f12/frankfurt__harry_-_on_bullshit.pdf

I can’t tell if thats yes or not 😳

Actually ive got a fairly good idea

It just amuses me to act very stupid at times…gets me out of a lot

The oldest rider on the team apart from Natalie was just 31.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bingoal_Casino–Chevalmeire

Didn't do sport from 21.

Picked up a bike at 31!!!

'
“I started living again after that decision was made. It was like being born again in a way. People are always amazed I am 47 but I always feel like I missed about 10 years of my life and that makes me 10 years younger mentally than my actual age.”'

Probably could have gone a few more years like 50 year old Gabriel Ludwig playing basketball with college students

"We always think women's bodies have a limit but that is a limit we are taught socially." This quote infuriates me--especially when the issue of the female athlete triad among young women is finally getting recognized.