Radio 4 Thought for the Day

[BubbleCoffee]

Just heard 'Thought for the Day' on Radio 4. I know it's opinion-based but I was surprised by the conflation of 1. ignorance and 2. holding a different opinion. The speaker was a Rabbi but I didn't catch her name. Her main point was that making a 'mistake' or 'not yet understanding' something is not the same as 'hatred'. All the examples were on trans ideology such as if you accidentally'misgender' someone or don't understand what 'cisgender' means, you just haven't learned yet and aren't being 'hateful'. No mention at all of the possibility that you might know the ideological terms and disagree with them. She mentioned Professor Kathleen Stock in a very patronising way. as though she was ill-informed, rather than very well-informed and still holding a different opinion.

She hadn't put much thought into her "Thought for the Day". Used Kathleen Stock's predicament as a stepping stone to her own one-sided opinions. If she's done the tiniest bit of research, she would have found out that "cis" is not a term to get the public on your side. She should educated herself....

this is a somewhat general response - but i find the characterisation of others as "misguided" a frustrating thing in public debate. "I bet you've never met a trans person" comes up so often on twitter etc in response to any position deviating from "TMAM, TWAW, NBAV, TRAHR" and it's such patronising inaccurate BS.

I agree, Nell.

Also, the problem is, the mtf transitioners I have known were very clearly autogynaephiles. I didn't realise that at the time (because I didn't know what AGP was) and I spent a long time - years, even - trying to reconcile the whole 'born in the wrong body' narrative with the people I knew. The moment I first heard about AGP (thanks to oblique references on this board) and looked into it, everything fell into place. It made far, far more sense in relation to the people I knew than the explanation of 'a woman trapped in a man's body', which I had genuinely sought to believe in as some sort of scientific fact up until that point.

Now, obviously I don't believe that AGP accounts for all transitioners. I really don't.

But it does mean that I take a dim view of the 'but if you only knew some lovely trans people' argument. I liked, cared about and in some ways admired the mtf transitioners I knew. But knowing what I know, I sure as hell wouldn't share a communal changing room with them.

My experience is anecdotal and shouldn't be used as a basis for making laws. Likewise, the fact that an MP (naming no names) has a lovely transgirl in her constituency or a rabbi has a delightful trans child should also not be used as a basis for lawmaking.

People are using Thought for the Day to disseminate political messages.

I've found some threads about when Janner-Klausner was previously on thought for the day talking about her non-binary child. It was 3 years ago when the GRA consultation was open.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3389089-r4-thought-for-today

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3389092-r4-thought-for-the-day

Her tone of voice sounded like was talking to a Cbeebies audience. This was a personal agenda that went beyond her religious duties.

It was unbelievably patronising. Similar to the way Rowan Moore (architecture writer in the Observer) writes about his trans child, with a total barrier up to any possibility that people could have a legitimately conflicting view, because “my baby”.

@ArtemesiaK

She hadn't put much thought into her "Thought for the Day". Used Kathleen Stock's predicament as a stepping stone to her own one-sided opinions. If she's done the tiniest bit of research, she would have found out that "cis" is not a term to get the public on your side. She should educated herself....

Reading the other threads about what she said on TFTD in 2018, she was saying exactly the same then as now, that we were all ignorant and we just needed to be educated.

She doesn't seem to have learned much herself in the last 3 years. But she seems to have got the little knowledge she has from her (adult female) trans child.

"If you disagree with me, then I just haven't explained to you yet in small enough words what I want you to do, think and say."

Where do you even start with that kind of arrogance?

@Artichokeleaves

"If you disagree with me, then I just haven't explained to you yet in small enough words what I want you to do, think and say."

Where do you even start with that kind of arrogance?

In one corner we have Professor Stocks published book about the subject, and in the other we have a piece of paper with ‘Be Kind’ written in crayon (with a bit of a rainbow.)

@timeisnotaline taking breakfast: meeting the needs of their disability.
best way to get them to school without being a small bundle of rage because I quite like their teachers.

Is it worth putting in a complaint to the BBC perhaps? About letting political think taking over tftd?
And perhaps demanding an equal and opposite tftd, from, ooh, Posie perhaps??

@BlackeyedSusan sorry, no issue - i think lots of parents do that, it’s just far less common on this part of the site so I did notice . I remember my school friend saying she had breakfast in bed regularly and I was blown away.

No problem timeisnotaline , sometimes it is good to know what is unusual when you are stuck in an autistic bubble.

It is a bit like me saying, my autistic child can not sit still and can not shut up so should be allowed to stomp round the classroom shouting while the teacher is trying to teach rather than trying to find a compromise that allows adaptions for the autistic child whilst not disrupting the other 29 and making the teacher's life hell.

@BlackeyedSusan

No problem timeisnotaline , sometimes it is good to know what is unusual when you are stuck in an autistic bubble.

It is a bit like me saying, my autistic child can not sit still and can not shut up so should be allowed to stomp round the classroom shouting while the teacher is trying to teach rather than trying to find a compromise that allows adaptions for the autistic child whilst not disrupting the other 29 and making the teacher's life hell.

This. Actual inclusion involves meeting the needs of all: not wholly one way entitlement with one party needing to suffer to prove enough care and virtue towards the other.

For a start because that messes up inclusion all round: it does nothing to remove barriers or improve things for anyone, it just builds them up high between different parties within the group.