My Pregnant Husband

[OldTinHat]

Has anyone watched this? It's on Discovery +

Why would anyone who was 'assigned a female at birth' and decided that was wrong for them, live as a man, get all the hormone and surgery treatment then decide to get pregnant?

Prepared to be flamed but isn't this a case of having your cake and eating it??

@YetAnotherSpartacus

Individual trans men, then I guess it's just a shrug (but don't understand). But when this is extended to 'men have babies too' then that's bollocks because that opens the door to all men or any man having a stakeholder position in a range of topics to do with issues that fundamentally affect women and women only.

This. Excellent point.

@YetAnotherSpartacus

Individual trans men, then I guess it's just a shrug (but don't understand). But when this is extended to 'men have babies too' then that's bollocks because that opens the door to all men or any man having a stakeholder position in a range of topics to do with issues that fundamentally affect women and women only.

Sadly this already happens.

You only have to look at the number of male cheerleaders in the anti-abortion movement to understand the degree to which some men want to take over issues that only pertain to women.

My partner is a trans man, there is absolutely no way on earth that he would carry a baby. We have spoken about this a lot and he says very simply that Men don't get pregnant.

Obviously he doesn't speak for all trans men but he is horrified at the thought.

I was reading the thread about what it means to "live as a woman" the other day. Presumably the act of being pregnant negates any other thing you're doing to "live as a man" (I'm guessing it means wearing jeans with deep pockets and cutting your hair short??), as there is no man that ever lived who has been pregnant. So you can't possibly be living as a man. And as your biology is clearly female, and the thing you are doing is solely female, how can it possibly be described as a man having a baby?

It's not like being a trans man and deciding to have long hair, which some biological men do. It's entirely female.

You only have to look at the number of male cheerleaders in the anti-abortion movement to understand the degree to which some men want to take over issues that only pertain to women.

Yes, but they speak as men.

My concern is that they will start speaking as (and for) us as women.

@AndTime

My partner is a trans man, there is absolutely no way on earth that he would carry a baby. We have spoken about this a lot and he says very simply that Men don't get pregnant.

Obviously he doesn't speak for all trans men but he is horrified at the thought.

At least he’s not saying that trans men can’t get pregnant - pre-op, of course they can and do.

*transmen

I believe ftm transitioners stop all the hormone treatment when they decide to go through pregnancy in order not to harm the baby.

What makes me really quite angry about the whole thing is what it is doing to the terminology surrounding women. I have already been through an antenatal course where the written literature (although not the people who actually ran the course, thank goodness) insisted on referring to 'birthing parent' and 'birthing person'. American parenting websites frequently talk about 'pregnant people' and I note that the majority of these websites have a line to say that they were 'updated in 2020'.

Only one type of person becomes pregnant. Females. Specifically, older girls and women.

A pregnant transman is in no way 'living as a man'. Unless they take the view that a man is a tough person who fixes cars, while a woman is someone who likes pink sparkles and cries a lot. Which is more insulting than I can say.

And someone will be along shortly to tell me that ftm transitioners don't take this view, but will be unable to provide an alternative explanation as to what a transman considers a man or woman to be. (Yes, yes, an innate 'gender identity' which can never be explained or described using objective criteria.)

Anyway, all I know is that the word 'woman' is being stripped of its meaning; that by being described as a 'birthing person' I'm being reduced to a mere bodily process; and if I do continue to use the word 'woman' to describe myself, I feel as though I am making some sort of statement about my character, which the original definition of 'woman' never included.

I repeat: it makes me angry.

@AndTime

My partner is a trans man, there is absolutely no way on earth that he would carry a baby. We have spoken about this a lot and he says very simply that Men don't get pregnant.

Obviously he doesn't speak for all trans men but he is horrified at the thought.

It is considerably easier to understand your partner's position than those which are considerably less logical!

There is a flaw though - "trans-man" is a subset of the class "woman", not "man" just like "trans-woman" is a subset of men not women.

What I find perplexing is the realities of gestation and childbirth are seemingly immune to dysphoria: trans men happily have children, and don’t experience mental breakdowns. But it is language and concepts that cause the strife - I’ll never forget Freddy McConnell’s account of having a fit because the midwife presented them with a pink medical form. And of course it’s dysphoria inducing to be called a mother. What I don’t get is why can’t they have the same attitude to words as they do to reality? Men can give birth! And also men love the colour pink and can be called “mother”. It just seems that what causes dysphoria is very selective and irrational. If one can give birth to a baby, why is being called mother a step too far?

Surely thus is in breach of his GRC. The GRC is given on condition that you live as the opposite sex. He is clearly not doing that.

Its bonkers. And shouldn't be encouraged by sensible people. Men can't get pregnant. Fact. Well not at this moment in time. Maybe they will evolve into sea horses in the future. Who knows.

When I see headlines like this it really makes me wonder if the pregnancy is honestly a desired pregnancy (in which case, the "man" is no longer "living as a man") or is it an act of rebellion?

If it is the latter, then that is very, very sad for the child.

I wonder if the long term consequences are thoroughly examined, or if it just a selfish act. In my thinking it is almost like an act of extreme activism, but it does nothing to further the cause as it makes a mockery of being a "man".

My brain is a bit fried by it all

@WeeBisom

What I find perplexing is the realities of gestation and childbirth are seemingly immune to dysphoria: trans men happily have children, and don’t experience mental breakdowns. But it is language and concepts that cause the strife - I’ll never forget Freddy McConnell’s account of having a fit because the midwife presented them with a pink medical form. And of course it’s dysphoria inducing to be called a mother. What I don’t get is why can’t they have the same attitude to words as they do to reality? Men can give birth! And also men love the colour pink and can be called “mother”. It just seems that what causes dysphoria is very selective and irrational. If one can give birth to a baby, why is being called mother a step too far?

Really? Freddy had a fit because he was given a pink form to fill out?

Has anyone told Freddy that UK driving licences are pink?

Anyway. That little story just reinforces my belief that transmen take the view that women are people who like pink sparkles and men are people who fix cars. But that's probably confirmation bias. ..

@AndTime

My partner is a trans man, there is absolutely no way on earth that he would carry a baby. We have spoken about this a lot and he says very simply that Men don't get pregnant.

Obviously he doesn't speak for all trans men but he is horrified at the thought.

I have to say this makes sense to me; I can believe women feel they are a man, but not that they genuinely feel they are a man but insist on having a baby. There’s no sense of having to conquer his dysphoria from that Freddie person, it’s not we desperately wanted a baby and I’m the only one equipped so even though it makes me feel ill thinking about it I’m having a baby, it’s very much a proud shout it out that men have babies too so shut up and affirm me, all you women! I do feel like it’s the most female thing you can do (well maybe that and getting raped), if there weren’t the issue of unwelcome pregnancies etc I’d wonder if anyone who has a baby should be considered to live as a woman and have their GRC cancelled. Except of course you can’t cancel/ withdraw it/ change back, donchaknow the law says gender transition is one way . (I’m pretty sure of that last but not totally!)

You can only 'live as a man' if you first a accept male stereotypes.

Freddy talked about pink forms here - www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/dec/27/midwife-pregnant-dad-caring-experience-thank-you

Freddy thanks the midwife for “apologising” for the “pink one size fits all forms” because Freddy is so special and cannot be encapsulated by such things.

Am I allowed to say that Freddie gets on my tits if I use the 'correct' pronouns?

I think the problem is that lots of us assume people have "gender dysphoria" as it was originally defined in the 70s and 80s - a severe discomfort with your actual sex. So we assume that would extend to sex roles.

Most current "trans" people don't actually suffer this. It's a whole bunch of different issues, most of which are not actually about sex. It's a bundle of different identity hang-ups, all grouped under one all-encompassing label.

For women in particular, it's often some sort of "I want to be treated as a real person, not a woman" - a whole bundle of internalised misogyny. So actually having a baby isn't an issue, as no-one around you suggests you're a "woman" (ie subhuman) while doing so.

And sometimes, particular NBs, it's just a demand to be treated as "special"... Doesn't even have to be about sex at all, per se, but you get the opportunity to claim specialness by saying you can't be grouped by sex like normal people. You could do "non-binary" exactly the same way with any grouping system, even if it wasn't sex...

Freddy got a much better experience of midwives and antenatal care than I ever have. Cups of tea and small talk? Phoned ahead of scans?

@WeeBisom

Freddy talked about pink forms here - www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/dec/27/midwife-pregnant-dad-caring-experience-thank-you

Freddy thanks the midwife for “apologising” for the “pink one size fits all forms” because Freddy is so special and cannot be encapsulated by such things.

If Freddie is so easily triggered, it's a good job that he presumably doesn't work in any job which uses carbon copy forms. We have several such pads at work and each copy is identified by a different colour according to which department needs each copy. Freddie would have a fit every time he had to fill out the cash handling sheet.

The defect books would be fine though, they are blue/white/yellow.

@Lovelyricepudding yes I agree with this. I dont have such a problem with transmen having babies, having individualised care paths etc for language or whatever else, but why do we all have to pretend they are actually a man, change all of the language in maternity services and publicise a "man" having a baby. If men could have babies, my DH would absolutely be having our second because I don't particularly want to go through pregnancy again!