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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

GB News doing 'Gender' Now

72 replies

Jaysmith71 · 09/10/2021 15:04

...Alex Phillips, intelligent but rather pleased with herself, asking all the right questions.

OP posts:
Jaysmith71 · 10/10/2021 18:26

Andrew Doyle is on at 19.00

Whatever else he is, he isn't anti-gay.

OP posts:
RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 10/10/2021 18:36

I'll watch what I want, agree with what I want, and say what I want. And anyone who wants to suggest that my mind is so feeble I might find myself throwing a sieg heil before I know it can frankly whistle

Nicely put

I’ll read what i want as well

ItsRainingProstateOwners · 10/10/2021 18:37

Just FYI GBNews have a YouTube channel and post clips of the debates and conversations so you can just watch the sex/gender bits if you want.

Mollyollydolly · 10/10/2021 18:46

@FireFlyBoogaloo

*Yep. If you watch and support GBNEWS or FoxUK or whatever it's called, you're giving them credibility and commercial viability and a platform to bash gay people, immigrants, single mums, black people, and whoever else is in the firing line at the moment.*

I know that "GB News is all vile bigots" is a popular view in the extreme left twittersphere, but I've watched a fair bit of it and come to the conclusion that most of those people are being riled by each other and certainly haven't watched more than out of context clips on social media. Indeed, it strikes me as the exact same argument as "all GC people are vile transphobes".

I don't agree with everything I hear from presenters on GB News, but to say that they're peddling racist/homophobic/whatever hatred and are far right is just a silly notion. I don't agree with everything said on BBC or Sky News, either.

"Oh... oh dear. You wouldn't want to agree with THOSE people, would you" is divide and conquer "bekind" nonsense.

I've been done pandering to this twaddle for a while now. I'll watch what I want, agree with what I want, and say what I want. And anyone who wants to suggest that my mind is so feeble I might find myself throwing a sieg heil before I know it can frankly whistle.

This.
KohlaParasanda · 10/10/2021 19:54

@thedancingbear

Doesn't it raise a red flag for anyone when you find yourself aligning with a news outlet noted for its thinly-veiled racism and more general far-right leanings?

Not intended as a criticism of the GC position (which for the most part I agree with) but, fucking hell, the idea of sitting and nodding along to NewsGB and Farage - a pound shop Oswald Moseley - makes me queasy.

I will hold my hand up and say yes, it bothers me quite a lot. I don't want to be lumped in with the far right, who have come to a similar position from a very different angle, and I'm not comfortable with them as allies. They are no friends of feminism, or of women. I could do without the challenge of having to defend my position with reference to the likes of Nigel Farage.

This does not change the fact that sex is binary and immutable and that there are sound reasons for women to have spaces from which males, however they identify, are excluded.

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 10/10/2021 20:07

I don’t think watching something or reading something means I’m allied to them…I don’t understand it

I do read masses of links and articles about some subjects…maybe thats why I don’t understand it

tilder · 10/10/2021 20:26

I'm not convinced Nigel Farage understands it that way at all; in fact I'm pretty sure he doesn't

This. I do not want to be associated with the nasty side of right wing politics.

I am gender critical. I am not anti trans. There is a gulf between these positions.

Am sure the right wing know what women are biologically. Otherwise how else will they work to keep us in line?

CreepingDeath · 10/10/2021 20:50

@IsitM

The GB News presenters are really are getting to grips with this issue, but I do wish they would challenge the lies of people like Tatchell; yet again he insists they have been ‘no problems’ with self ID in other countries, among other falsehoods. He and his ilk need to be robustly challenged.
This bothers me so much, because I am in one of those other countries and the reason there is 'no problems' with Self ID, is because the media refuses to report on this topic honestly. So male sex offenders in women's prisons are reported as female. And the vast majority of the electorate are none the wiser.

It's all well and good to state 'no problems here, no siree' when you haven't actually asked people what they think, or don't tell people the truth about what is going on and just carry on regardless.

CreepingDeath · 10/10/2021 20:56

As for 'aligning with the far right', I will reiterate what Babdoc said -

One does not have to agree with 100% of a person’s opinions in order to ally with them on a single issue.

Unfortunately, we have been hemmed into a corner because the vast majority of mainstream media will not report on this issue in a truthful, reasonable way.

So we are left scrambling around to find anyone who will talk about this and get the word out. Because if it was left to the Guardian, BBC et. al there would be no discussion on this at all.

Life is full of imperfect choices.

MidsomerMurmurs · 10/10/2021 21:07

Yep. If you watch and support GBNEWS or FoxUK or whatever it's called, you're giving them credibility and commercial viability and a platform to bash gay people, immigrants, single mums, black people, and whoever else is in the firing line at the moment

Yeah, OK. If you click on a Guardian website article you give them credibility and signal support for their misogyny, right? Is that how this works now? I for one wouldn't want to accidentally read the wrong thing.

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 10/10/2021 21:10

@MidsomerMurmurs

Yep. If you watch and support GBNEWS or FoxUK or whatever it's called, you're giving them credibility and commercial viability and a platform to bash gay people, immigrants, single mums, black people, and whoever else is in the firing line at the moment

Yeah, OK. If you click on a Guardian website article you give them credibility and signal support for their misogyny, right? Is that how this works now? I for one wouldn't want to accidentally read the wrong thing.

Yep

I’ll be honest it explains a lot about some posters

They only let themselves read one paper or watch one news channel

Personally i think thats fucking weird…why wouldn’t you want to read round a subject and get different views and opinions?

tilder · 10/10/2021 21:22

I'm happy to read and watch news from multiple sources and frequently do. There was a depressing article on CNN yesterday about transphobia in UK media. I am aware of my political leanings and that of the media I use.

I still don't want to align myself with somebody just because on one issue they have parallel concerns. TBO I don't think it helps. I don't like the image it presents to the many people currently waking up to the issue.

I know how it would look to me if I was just starting out.

Alekto · 10/10/2021 21:30

It's all well and good to state 'no problems here, no siree' when you haven't actually asked people what they think, or don't tell people the truth about what is going on and just carry on regardless.

This is truly dystopian. I am horrified enough at the censoring paternalistic antics of the craven BBC and venal Guardian over here. At least we have started to get some coverage in some outlets now, after years and years of screaming the house down. Those so called progressive countries where there isn't a single spark of truthful light permitted by the corrupt leaders are terrifying.

JustSpeculation · 10/10/2021 21:40

@Fifteentoes says:

it's obviously tempting to rejoice when hearing the right fight against trans rights, since it's become (sadly) a kind of zero sum game between those and women's rights.

The fight is not against trans rights...I think. It would be helpful to know what these rights actually are, perhaps using this from Pratchett's "Wyrd sisters" as a model:

“It’s got to stop. I know my rights.”

“What rights are they?” said Granny.

“Dunnage, cowhage-in-ordinary, badinage, leftovers, scrommidge, clary and spunt,” said the peasant promptly. “And acornage, every other year, and the right to keep two-thirds of a goat on the common.”

Could someone please specify what rights are being fought against? Please?

FemaleAndLearning · 10/10/2021 21:41

I really like Andrew Doyle on GB News, he is witty and is passionately critical of identity politics. I'm sure I heard him say he was on the left and he is open about being gay. He states clearly he is not anti trans. He does Free Speech Nation on a Sunday night.

I like much of the reporting on GB news. They do much longer interviews and most of the presenters do not but in.
Nigel Farage is on with a female conservative MP and a Trade Unionist as well as Arlene Foster on Sunday mornings for the Political Correction. I find it quite interesting.
As others have said just because I watch it doesn't mean I agree with everything or all the presenters views but I am really happy there is a news outlet that is willing to talk about gender identity ideology.

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 10/10/2021 21:46

I still don't want to align myself with somebody just because on one issue they have parallel concerns

I don’t know anyone aligning themselves with the far right

I see a lot of people saying that even the act of watching what they believe is a right wing site means that you are aligning yourself with the right wing (not just on this thread)

tilder · 10/10/2021 22:03

There a huge difference between watching or reading media and aligning yourself with those individuals, of course. I read lots of things, doesn't mean I agree with or support it. Doesn't mean I think if somebody reads an article in a paper they are a fully paid up member.

I guess it can just give a certain impression, depending on how the thread goes. The 'Nigel Garage is thoughtful' comment above, for example. As is talking about right wing media as an ally.

Fine if that's what you want. It's not for me. I don't see them as an ally.

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 10/10/2021 22:04

Fine if that's what you want

Dont be youing thank you very much

tilder · 10/10/2021 22:24

Ok. If you choose to read my posts in that way, fine. It really wasn't how I meant it.

I just think it's a shame. TRA have been trying to say being GC is a right wing view point for years. I happen to think it isn't. I also think that the right wing take on the issue does not come from a GC perspective. Which is probably why I am uncomfortable with the ally bit.

I'm going to leave this here, as I'm either putting my opinion across really badly or it's an opinion that isn't welcome.

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 10/10/2021 22:38

I'm going to leave this here, as I'm either putting my opinion across really badly or it's an opinion that isn't welcome

Ive not said there is anything wrong with your opinion

There a huge difference between watching or reading media and aligning yourself with those individuals, of course. I read lots of things, doesn't mean I agree with or support it. Doesn't mean I think if somebody reads an article in a paper they are a fully paid up member

Agree with this for a start…its what im saying

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 10/10/2021 22:41

Agree with this for a start…its what im saying

And most other posters to be honest

NiceGerbil · 11/10/2021 03:18

@ConfusedInNY

Is that the lady who was in UKIP then the Brexit Party?. Now nigel is on GB news it must feel like a bit of a reunion over at gab news. Favourite presenter is Neil Oliver though but I’ve always had a lot of time for Nigel Farage. He comes across as so thoughtful but jovial at the same time :)
Lolololollllll

Really? Lordy!

They were all about getting away from Europe weren't they, ukip. Don't want those awful European types here! Taking our jobs etc says man with German wife.

Then brexit BOOM! WTF do I do now?

I know! I'll fuck off to USA and hang out with Donald trump.

Imo.

Farage is a nasty little man. Or in more expressive language. A hypocritical, shit stirring, arrogant, self serving turd of a man.

Just my opinion obv :)

NiceGerbil · 11/10/2021 03:22

Tilder- one person who I have a feeling is not a feminist type said farage is thoughtful.

I would put hard cash on the fact that the vast majority of the country, let alone other posters on here.

KNOW that he is a despicable tosser. And would be happy to never see his ridiculous 'man on the street' look I'm in a pub with a pint posturing, with eternally gurning face, ever ever again.

NiceGerbil · 11/10/2021 03:28

@thedancingbear

Doesn't it raise a red flag for anyone when you find yourself aligning with a news outlet noted for its thinly-veiled racism and more general far-right leanings?

Not intended as a criticism of the GC position (which for the most part I agree with) but, fucking hell, the idea of sitting and nodding along to NewsGB and Farage - a pound shop Oswald Moseley - makes me queasy.

Well this is the thing isn't it.

The impact on women of the trans activism that came into public eye in last few years has been on radar of Feminists for years. The sort of Feminists who are of the old school- more 2nd wave style. Radical feminists- look at root cause.

I went to an event around 10 years ago. Women only. BACK THEN the venue had to be changed and booked under a different event name. Due to threat of protest as women only. Had to go to an area in London and wait for details of venue on the day.

10 years ago.

NiceGerbil · 11/10/2021 03:44

In the last few years it's come to wider attention.

SM etc bars these discussions. I think MN is the/ one of the only places it's openly discussed. And so more and more women come here including from abroad. To talk about this.

It's a mistake to think they all even see themselves as feminists.
Let alone are old school life long lefty types.

And that's happened because this issue impacts ALL women. Irrespective of background politics etc.

So yes there will be those who have different reasons for being here/ political views.

Plus of course. Feminists are across politics. Because women care more about women and girls being attacked abused. Experiencing discrimination. Care more about children etc. Then men ever have (generally).

There have always been women on the right who raised these issues. Because they're women. I mean obv different reasons solutions etc. But it's wrong to position women caring about women and children as only possible to lefties.

With this issue it's not party political. It is about women and girls. No more no less. This frequent shame on you stuff is intended to get women to back off and remember what they should be doing.

But how can a woman like me have anything to do with labour at the moment? Plus all the other stuff. The antisemitism. Masses of Jewish people labour through and through. To see all that.

Labour are fucked at the moment. Divided, focused on something most voters find ridiculous, and irrelevant to their lives.

Shitting on large groups of people who were with them.

Kier is zero passion charisma.

So a few women on MN are neither here nor there. Their unpopularity is their own fault.