Do you ever wonder if you're disappearing down a rabbit hole on trans issues?

[MaMaLa321]

For the 1st time, I had a heated discussion with a good friend on this. They firmly believe that my concerns are a marginal issue, compared to misogyny in general, poverty, the climate etc. and that it doesn't matter that politicians are so hopeless at discussing it.
TBH it took me aback - maybe I'm going dotty, but then I think that it really is important. Does anyone else feel this way?

Also, since it's transphobic to disagree with the catechism that TWAW etc, people with GC views are probably shunned from any activism in quite a range of situations. So it has a knock on impact on issues far beyond sex and gender eg the environment.
I hope it's not as bad as that, but it does feel that way.

@MaMaLa321

I find it difficult to discuss this with someone who says 'does this directly effect you?' And it doesn't. But then, lots of things don't directly effect me which are pretty damn important.

If you are female, or if you have children, this directly affects you.

Some would also say that safeguarding children directly affects everyone and is everyone's responsibility.

Even if prisons or changing rooms don't directly affect you, at some point you are highly likely to be affected by healthcare. Political representation will affect you, involved in it or not. Freedom of thought, speech and belief does and will affect what you read about, hear about, are permitted to discuss and question.

No,. because it has shaken me to my core to realise just how little society and people care about women and girls. That society can actually think it is ok for women to be housed in prison with sex offenders, that women traumatised by male sexual violence have no right to a male free space, that women aren't even allowed the language to talk about their fear of male violence as they aren't allowed to the word 'man' or say 'he or she. That women think they need to be kind and stop aside (or more accurately that OTHER women should be kind and step aside).
Tbh, I think this whole issue is just the manifestation of much, much stronger, deeper cultural attitudes and its THAT we need to analyse and combat. This movement would never have got this far it it wasn't able to expose deep cultural and unconscious misogyny.

'he or him' that should have said.

And it should have said exploit not expose.

Sigh.

Tbh, I think this whole issue is just the manifestation of much, much stronger, deeper cultural attitudes and its THAT we need to analyse and combat. This movement would never have got this far it it wasn't able to expose deep cultural and unconscious misogyny.

Yes, quite agree.

Yeah sometimes I feel like am I becoming some sort of crazy extremist? I know I'm not .. but sometimes I wonder lol, I have friends/family who agree with me but don't really think it's an issue affecting the real world and just think it's all on Twitter and so don't feel passionate about it, I have friends who says twaw which is just infuriating and I can't speak to them about it and I have friends/family who don't know anything about what's going on in any way and don't think or care about it 🤷🏼‍♀️

@GrandmaMazur

Sometimes- I still think many people aren’t really aware of what’s going on.

But when you find out women are being raped in women’s prisons and on single sex wards in hospitals in the UK I don’t understand how it’s possible to be anything else but FURIOUS.

I also find that when I bring this up to people who either have no idea what's going on or blindly say TWAW, they actually don't believe me... even though if they looked it up they could see it with their own eyes, but it's all so insane that they don't believe it and just think I'm crazy lol

I often get the same response- this is a marginal issue and I'm apparently weird for caring. It's all very First they came for the communists... and it doesn't reflect well on these people. As someone said, it's I'm alright Jack

If I ever get murdered, I don't want a vigil I want a fucking riot

Well said, FortunaMajor (may it never happen to you). It's no longer enough to politely point out that two women a week are killed by men in Britain alone, while I think there's been one transgender murder in the past decade.

Self-ID can only ever work for men. We can't identify out of being female when faced with rapists, woman-killers, TRAs whose proud boast is that they attack feminists, and all the other men who just like hurting women.

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

If I ever get murdered, I don't want a vigil I want a fucking riot

Well said, FortunaMajor (may it never happen to you). It's no longer enough to politely point out that two women a week are killed by men in Britain alone, while I think there's been one transgender murder in the past decade.

Self-ID can only ever work for men. We can't identify out of being female when faced with rapists, woman-killers, TRAs whose proud boast is that they attack feminists, and all the other men who just like hurting women.

Equally - and I say this based on a youtube interview with a GC post-op transsexual... you can't identify INTO being female when faced with rapists, woman-killers etc. As this man said (I paraphrase) (and he said he was a man, albeit a man who enjoyed being validated as a woman), "if I want to walk home late a night I just need to put on a big coat and I walk home a man, not a woman".

I won't rest until we can stop crimes committed by men, being recorded as though they were committed by women.
Get men out of womens prisons
Stop the teaching of gender identity in schools-prevent the medical experimentation on children
Stop giving tax payers money to Mermaids and Stonewall which have become dangerous lobby groups
Stop men competing against women in sports when sex matters
Keep single sex provision in hospitals, refuges, girl guides, Hampstead ladies Pond, changing rooms & toilets etc
Reform or repeal the GRA, no man should be allowed legal status as a woman
Lets expand the bandwidth of being male, so trans women are included in mens facilities-not forced into womens spaces

This isn't a niche issue-its got its tentacles everywhere & children are being brainwashed into believing they can just magically change sex.

The answer to 'Does it affect you?' OP, is that YES, they are starting to enshrine this batsht into LAW. Just a few more pieces of legislation and there will be no way back out. If they rewrite the Equality act to replace sex with gender, we are f*d i think.

Presumably, in a couple more years, there will be no more 'gender pay gap' because of all the persons of the male sex, being counted in the female statistics.

We won't be able to count male violence, because 'women' will be equally as violent, according to the statistics.

I'm with you, @FortunaMajor. It's worth rioting over.

I see it as a bedrock principle. 1. What is a woman. Only when that is not a controversial issue can you then move to 2. How to change how women are treated in society.

If you can’t define 1, then how can you address 2?

I work with young people and families and I know what the rise of the trans juggernaut is doing to fragile and developing adolescents. I see the fallout.

More than ever, I can see the damage it's yet to cause.

@ArabellaScott

No. I am concerned with women's rights issues, accuracy of data, scientific method and evidence based medecine, language accuracy, freedom of speech, thought and belief, honesty, political integrity and accountability.

So called 'trans issues' are really only a symptom of far larger societal problems.

This is spot on Arabella, I've cut and paste into some notes I'm preparing for a meeting. Thank you .

Nae bother, hen!

@happydappy2

I won't rest until we can stop crimes committed by men, being recorded as though they were committed by women. Get men out of womens prisons Stop the teaching of gender identity in schools-prevent the medical experimentation on children Stop giving tax payers money to Mermaids and Stonewall which have become dangerous lobby groups Stop men competing against women in sports when sex matters Keep single sex provision in hospitals, refuges, girl guides, Hampstead ladies Pond, changing rooms & toilets etc Reform or repeal the GRA, no man should be allowed legal status as a woman Lets expand the bandwidth of being male, so trans women are included in mens facilities-not forced into womens spaces

This isn't a niche issue-its got its tentacles everywhere & children are being brainwashed into believing they can just magically change sex.

This!

Yes. 🐇

But it's becoming v pertinent to be able to discuss at depth as conversations are starting to happen.

Yes, it's exhausting! But it does potentially affect anyone, anyone who is a parent, an aunt, an uncle, anyone in academia, anyone working in education, anyone gay, women who may need single sex spaces... And that's quite alot of people.

Yes, can't imagine the world, and me, going back to where we were before I went down the rabbit hole.

@ArabellaScott

Tbh, I think this whole issue is just the manifestation of much, much stronger, deeper cultural attitudes and its THAT we need to analyse and combat. This movement would never have got this far it it wasn't able to expose deep cultural and unconscious misogyny.

Yes, quite agree.

Yes. I found David Lammy’s comments on this particularly concerning because he clearly didn’t know or care about

1. what a cervix is, despite having 3 children
2. the point he was supposed to be arguing, given his confusion over whether ‘only women have a cervix’ excluded trans women.

He just knew that women, and particularly feminists, must be wrong.

No. Because with allllllll the politics, semantics and safeguarding debates removed, it boils down to one simple thing: a man cannot be a woman. A woman cannot be a man.

Even if it didn’t present safeguarding issues and was not socially problematic in any sense, it is a scientific untruth.

This is the first time in modern history that people have been legally obliged to acknowledge something which is a scientific and factual untruth.

And I find that deeply worrying. It’s 1984 stuff.

@oldwomanwhoruns

The answer to 'Does it affect you?' OP, is that YES, they are starting to enshrine this batsht into LAW. Just a few more pieces of legislation and there will be no way back out. If they rewrite the Equality act to replace sex with gender, we are f*d i think.

Presumably, in a couple more years, there will be no more 'gender pay gap' because of all the persons of the male sex, being counted in the female statistics.

We won't be able to count male violence, because 'women' will be equally as violent, according to the statistics.

I'm with you, @FortunaMajor. It's worth rioting over.

I've had the chat with my family that this is something I am willing to get arrested for. It's that big of a cause.

The only real glimmer is that when you speak to the average person on the street, be it female or male, they all think it's a load of bollocks and they don't buy into it. It's the institutional capture that's the main concern.

I do think there are some small signs the tide is turning, albeit very slowly. But then there are too many signs that the world has gone mad.

I don't see a way out at the moment. As above the key thing is EA2010. GRA2004 needs to go as no longer relevant for the purpose intended at the time. That fact that it doesn't allow for women to jump ahead for purposes of inheritance/titles shows it up for the joke that it is.