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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is there any proof/statistics that back up the claim that trans people are the most marginalised and abused communities?

70 replies

Keke94LND · 06/10/2021 17:10

Kier Starmer said that trans people are the most marginalised and abused communities, are there any reports or stats that back this claim up? Not that it is a competition for who is the most oppressed in society but In my opinion, I think there would be a strong argument for women being the most oppressed and abused group in history if you think historically and globally, women have been mistreated since the dawn of time right up until modern day in every country on earth, then ofcourse ethnic minorities are very marginalised in many countries to this day, as are disabled.. I just haven't been able to find anything that supports the claim that trans people are the most marginalised and abused? Is this actually true?

OP posts:
Anotheruser02 · 06/10/2021 18:31

When you widen the bandwidth of what constitutes a trans person and you lower the bar on what constitutes an offence there can't fail to be more reported crimes against that group, even if everyone is behaving the same towards them.

This group started as people with diagnosed gender dysphoria, these people are now quite a small subset of trans, the 'crimes' against these extra people count as an increase in crime, but weirdly enough the suicide stats haven't been diluted accordingly and they were fabricated noted when trans was people with diagnosed gender dysphoria. Engineered oppression.

KittenKong · 06/10/2021 18:31

No. Unless by marginalised they mean courted by big business, given months and special days, flags, charity money, lobby groups and pilot coco and chasing them...,

toomanytrees · 06/10/2021 18:34

"Marginalized" is an emotionally manipulative word.

KittenKong · 06/10/2021 18:37

Pilot coco? Politicians!

NewlyGranny · 06/10/2021 18:39

And if oppression means getting upset by seeing ribbons in suffragette colours in your environment, you are highly likely to feel you've won the oppression Olympics.

Keke94LND · 06/10/2021 18:40

@NewlyGranny

Statistically, in the UK, a trans person is more like to commit murder than be murdered. That data of course gets skewed by hitherto male offenders suddenly identifying as female after conviction for whatever reason.

But it's quite evident that the number of murdered transmen and transwomen is lower than that for either men or women when looked at as a percentage of each group as represented in the population. I.e. men are likeliest to be murdered, followed by women, followed by trans people. That data of course gets skewed by groups like Stonewall spreading the trans net very widely and counting lots of people who perhaps don't identify as trans, like occasional cross-dressers or people with DSD. Whatever the reason for the massively inclusive count, it shows up as suggesting it's very safe to be trans, which I doubt.

Bottom line, I understand the trans people murdered in the UK over the last few years could be counted on the fingers of one severely mutilated hand. I think it's around 2 in total. Not around 2 every week, like women, just 2.

And let's never lose track of the overwhelming fact that whoever you are, if you get murdered, it's nearly always a man who did it. 95% plus of murders are carried out by men. Our society's biggest unsolved problem is male violence and it impacts men, women, trans people and of course children too.

Whenever any group feels victimised or tempted to play oppression top trumps, let's remember we all face the same problem.

Yes, there was actually a case years and years ago of a black trans woman who was pushed in front of a train in London and died, very very sad, awful actually, it was a trans woman who murdered her too
OP posts:
Keke94LND · 06/10/2021 18:41

@WallaceinAnderland

Ok. A man who self identified as a woman 50% of the time, won Business Woman of the Year. Even though, by his own admission, he is only 'being a woman' 50% of the time, he beat all the other business women who are women 100% of the time.

And a weightlifter who fails to register a lift at the Olympics wins the Sportswoman of the year award.

Transwoman who says “The hardest part about being a woman is figuring out what to wear” wins Woman of the Year award

Marginalised? Really?

Eugh, I know, all these awards makes me furious!!!
OP posts:
IveGotASongThatllGetOnYNerves · 06/10/2021 18:47

No.

Trans people are certainly targets of male violence but are they the most abused group ever ? No. No they are not.

And marginalised? Really?

When women are being told to accept, embrace and move over and we all are asked to state pronouns and our gender identity rather than our biological sex plus all the other ways this group are demanding their wants are given a higher priority than other groups and given the fact that people who express the view that biology is different to gender identity are abused, threatened with physical harm (often rape, draw your own conclusions from that!) and disciplined in their jobs and no platformed I struggle to see how trans people are marginalised.

When everyone is told to believe what you believe and face actual consequences for not doing so, you are not a marginalised group!

Deliriumoftheendless · 06/10/2021 19:01

Non-verbal children with disabilities are fairly marginalised, but they don’t tend to use Twitter.

PaleGreenGhost · 06/10/2021 19:22

@Pudmyboy

I have been wondering about this *@Keke94LND*, be very interested in the responses. Also if the number of incidents includes objecting to stickers and similar...glad you asked the question OP
Well exactly.

Whereas women have been socialised not to report misogynist incidents and crimes, ranging from cat calling all the way up to rape. For vast and complex reasons.

OneEpisode · 06/10/2021 19:28

Lots of hate crimes reported by one brave person in a few years since coming out as a woman.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9985985/Transgender-woman-68-sues-Sainsburys-2-000-claiming-worker-said-look-state-that.html

Comments are great.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 06/10/2021 19:32

So marginalised that they are able to get schools, companies, the police and governments to bend over backwards to fulfill their every demand and push their totalitarian religion as fact and change laws that no one is allowed to point out that it's, quite literally, bollocks.

KittenKong · 06/10/2021 19:35

I wish I could be that marginalised. Where’s my flag, corporate sponsorship, laws, politician Ld, charities, bake sale, lawsuits...

Gtfcovid · 06/10/2021 19:35

Don’t make me laugh! I have worked with a grandmother who has kinship care of her grandchild who has a physical disability and can’t walk far. They failed to come to an appointment, which is very unlike them so I phoned and it turned out they did not have the bus fare, it was too far to walk and the grandmother had no credit on her phone so could not let me know.
I worked with a family who spent lockdown in a homeless flat with no carpets and not enough furniture to all sit in the living room at the same time. Single mum with 2 autistic boys. I have worked with families living in b&b accommodation, a single mum with 8 children living in a 3 bedroom flat. I could give you 100 other examples of people who don’t have the basics and have no voice because very few people care.
Most marginalised my arse!

ZuttZeVootEeeVo · 06/10/2021 19:43

When you widen the bandwidth of what constitutes a trans person and you lower the bar on what constitutes an offence there can't fail to be more reported crimes against that group, even if everyone is behaving the same towards them.

Exactly.

To prove that trans people are the most marginalised, we'd have to have a clear definition of what it is to be trans, and how we are defining marginalised and abused.

Otherwise it's just a slogan.

oldwomanwhoruns · 06/10/2021 20:48

[quote RoastChicory]Nice fact-check here from Channel 4.

www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-trans-people-murdered-uk[/quote]
I checked out this 'fact check', the death rate quoted is from a trans rights organisation 'Transrespect Versus Transphobia Worldwide' so I would strongly doubt the veracity of their figures (they say about 1 per year in the UK) ONS don't record the data separately, apparently.

Their 'violence' figure is cobbled together using Stonewall data, so completely valueless too. Unless you think that Stonewall are a good, reputable source...

OneEpisode · 06/10/2021 21:11

The deaths channel 4 quote in the Facf Check are probably fairly accurate, from death certificates. Sad that these people were murdered.
The good news is that the number of living trans people in that story are very much understated. Ch 4 say “trans people make up between 0.3 per cent and 0.75 per cent of the UK population.“
Susie Green of trans charity Mermaids in her official capacity says more than 2% in the UK helps explain the increase in school girls transitioning. Assuming she wouldn’t lie, the murder rate % for trans people is very very low indeed.

Anotheruser02 · 06/10/2021 21:20

Assuming she wouldn’t lie Hmm I would not assume that.
But yes that is good news.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 06/10/2021 21:26

The group most vulnerable to homicide in the UK, with the highest rate of being killed, is babies under one year old.

nauticant · 06/10/2021 21:29

It's worth keeping in mind that even with the very small number of trans people who have been killed in the UK over the past decade, there's no evidence that the motive was transphobia for most if not all of the murders.

This is informative:

transcrimeuk.com/2017/11/16/trans-homicides-in-the-uk-a-closer-look-at-the-numbers/

PermanentTemporary · 06/10/2021 21:36

I don't have figures. I do believe the most marginalised amd abused people in the UK are people with learning disabilities.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 06/10/2021 21:41

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

The group most vulnerable to homicide in the UK, with the highest rate of being killed, is babies under one year old.
There were 7.4 child homicides per million population in the year ending March 2018 (93 in total); the rate was highest for children under the age of 1 year (26 per million).

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/childphysicalabuseinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2019

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 06/10/2021 21:50

Odd how Keir Starmer, former head of the Department of Public Prosecutions, doesn't know this, isn't it?

Waitwhat23 · 06/10/2021 21:59

Was it this year or last year that Jess Phillips and Karen Ingala Smith were criticised for not naming the transwomen killed over the previous year during the reading of the names recorded by the Counting Dead Women Project in Parliament? When it was pointed out by Karen and Jess that the reason for this was because no transwomen had in fact been killed over that year (or indeed for several years previous to this), they were told that that 'wasn't the point' and still faced accusations of transphobia.

All this while women are being killed at a rate of 2 or 3 a week.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 06/10/2021 22:00

This year. I remember that thread!

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