Unisex toilets in secondary school

[CherryAndAlmond]

DS14 has just informed me that all the toilets in his school were switched to unisex over the summer holidays. Is this a common thing in secondary schools now? What I'm concerned about, aside from the obvious, is that parents were not consulted or informed. How do I raise this with the school, and is it even worth it? Thanks.

I can't stop my own son peeing on the seat despite best efforts, at least I can call him back and make him clean it up. Boys + no urinals = very unpleasant state by first break. Even queueing, I wouldn't have wanted to queue for the loo with boys, just no. Girls not drinking to avoid having to go & staying at home when on period.

Are there any teachers who have unisex toilets or are they just foisted on children?

Mixed toilets were foisted on the staff in my school. Staff comments ignored.

It actually ended up with the lovely male staff being made to feel very uncomfortable as the flush rarely worked so periods were very evident when previously all the female staff just had to grin and bear unflushed menstrual blood.

Hadn't been forced on the kids when I left but who knows now.

Same at my DS secondary.

On the plus side there is a socially enforced rule that one side of the corridor is male and the other female. It is apparently ‘social death’ to use the wrong one. So the kids don’t want it, and have gone back to single sex, just with the added bonus of unwritten rules...

Reading on this board is what made me able to articulate what the problem was. I spoke to some other parents who all said 'Yes, that's how I feel, I knew I was uncomfortable with it but couldn't explain why.'

I challenged it on the basis of

• making many students less comfortable and even potentially unsafe, especially girls
• unisex facilities being less safe for girls
• girls having particular biological, sex-based needs and feeling particularly self-conscious in adolescence
• they would likely be excluding some girls in the name of being inclusive
• they hadn't consulted all the students
• they had presented it as necessary due to being kind, so how did they expect girls especially to speak up if they were uncomfortable

Good luck OP.

Several Secondary schools in our area have these.

The whole area is open plan set back from the corridor. They are all individual lockable cubicles with privacy once inside the cubicle.

The open plan area is however visible from the corridor area. That means there's no messing about in that area, more than one pupil going into a cubicle would be seen and heard, there's no sneaky smoking or opportunity for bullying and the toilet area is very clean and new.

Why would a school need to consult parents on this? I think it's a very good idea.

It's illegal.

This. This. And this.

....although technically it may be 'unlawful.'

@Lindy2

The modern buildings with specially designed individual cubicles can work well I think.

What we're talking about is schools converting normal old school toilets into 'gender neutral', by removing the urinals and changing the signs.

@Lindy2

Several Secondary schools in our area have these.

The whole area is open plan set back from the corridor. They are all individual lockable cubicles with privacy once inside the cubicle.

The open plan area is however visible from the corridor area. That means there's no messing about in that area, more than one pupil going into a cubicle would be seen and heard, there's no sneaky smoking or opportunity for bullying and the toilet area is very clean and new.

Why would a school need to consult parents on this? I think it's a very good idea.

As long as they are fully self contained units with hand washing facilities inside the stall and floor to ceiling doors and walls.

I assume that’s not what we’re discussing here.

We have unisex toilets in my school in one building. They are just normal toilets with top to floor cubicles, hand wash basins in the middle, no urinals, no door to the corridor. Even though these toilets are supposedly unisex only girls use the toilets at one end of the building and only boys use the ones at the other end.

I don’t know if all teachers are even aware of the supposedly unisex nature of the toilets and I am pretty sure there would be teenage uproar if boys wanted to use the girls’ toilets and vice versa.

Our school tries hard to be woke, but most students and teachers just aren’t.

We do have a few non-binary and trans students who use one specific disabled toilet. Just because it says unisex doesn’t mean it will be used as such.

Just because it says unisex doesn’t mean it will be used as such.

That’s irrelevant.

They had this at the secondary school near where I live. Some boys' behaviour was a huge issue. Girls were avoiding drinking so they didn't have to use the loos and waiting until lunch to dash home or to the nearest burger place. The parents organised themselves and pressured the school to introduce single sex facilities in addition to a mixed sex one.

My younger daughter’s school was rebuilt during her time there are all the toilets were unisex. Floor to ceiling doors. The teachers used them as well.

She hated them. She ended up with quite a bad infection at one point as she refused to use them. At the time I was told on here that I had brought my DD up to have toilet issues!!!

I had a similar experience at the office I worked in. A new build building had all unisex toilets. The basins etc were within the cubicles. It just felt awkward. Interestingly the new building I now work in - same organisation has gone back to separate toilets plus a few stand alone ones.

According to DS it's normal cubicles with communal handwashing. He's not sure if there are gaps top and bottom of the cubicle walls - I've told him to check! I'm really grateful for all the helpful comments. You've helped me clarify my argument and I'll definitely be approaching the school, and if necessary going to the papers and organising a parent group.
DD certainly won't be going there in three years time if they don't sort their shit out.

@CherryAndAlmond

They've removed the urinals, Marshmallow.

Prickles, it's Norfolk. Semi-rural. Large mixed comprehensive.

Any children from culturally conservative backgrounds? Orthodox Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, Brethren, Travellers? Are there single-sex provisions for them or are they now left without any sanitary facilities?

And ask if you can see the Children's Rights Impact Assessment and the Equality Impact Assessment on removing the legally mandated single-sex facilities.

They have to at the very least do those if they are making any changes of this kind.

Also, ask about girls who have been victims of sexual abuse. Has any thought gone into the impact on these pupils of making the toilets mixed-sex?

I would also advise you to be very clear in your language. These toilets are not gender-neutral, non-binary or uni-sex, they are mixed-sex. It helps to hammer home the point you're making.

@CharlieParley

And ask if you can see the Children's Rights Impact Assessment and the Equality Impact Assessment on removing the legally mandated single-sex facilities.

They have to at the very least do those if they are making any changes of this kind.

Also, ask about girls who have been victims of sexual abuse. Has any thought gone into the impact on these pupils of making the toilets mixed-sex?

I would also advise you to be very clear in your language. These toilets are not gender-neutral, non-binary or uni-sex, they are mixed-sex. It helps to hammer home the point you're making.

Great advice, thank you.

Oh God, I've got to take on another bloody fight! I'm so damn tired of it!

@CharlieParley Yes, there's a small but growing number of children from some of those communities, esp Muslim. Some Travellers also. That's definitely worth raising.

@Lindy2

Several Secondary schools in our area have these.

The whole area is open plan set back from the corridor. They are all individual lockable cubicles with privacy once inside the cubicle.

The open plan area is however visible from the corridor area. That means there's no messing about in that area, more than one pupil going into a cubicle would be seen and heard, there's no sneaky smoking or opportunity for bullying and the toilet area is very clean and new.

Why would a school need to consult parents on this? I think it's a very good idea.

Similar at schools we've been looking at recently. Floor to ceiling doors and walls so no peeping, open to the corridor with an open plan sink space so reduces opportunities for gathering in packs or bullying.

The girls toilets at my secondary (early 90s) tended to be full of the older, more intimidating girls "hanging out". It was very much out of sight of teachers and rife for smoking and bullying.

I guess my preference would be a choice - single and mixed sex loos around the site.

Any children from culturally conservative backgrounds?

In rural Norfolk you'll likely have East European or Portuguese migrant parents, socially conservative Catholics.

Google Culloden Academy toilets Inverness. Someone set up a Facebook group. The contractor/school put them in, now back to single sex. Absolutely ridiculous to do it. Good luck.

The open plan area is however visible from the corridor area. That means there's no messing about in that area, more than one pupil going into a cubicle would be seen and heard

And who's standing watching these open plan areas to see and hear any misbehaviour? Schools don't have the staff to station someone by each toilet block. Even if technically in view through classroom doors, they'll be far too busy teaching.

This is a terrible idea at any time, but given the recent scandal over sexual assaults and harassment in schools, who in their right mind thought this was a good idea.

@Lindy2

Several Secondary schools in our area have these.

The whole area is open plan set back from the corridor. They are all individual lockable cubicles with privacy once inside the cubicle.

The open plan area is however visible from the corridor area. That means there's no messing about in that area, more than one pupil going into a cubicle would be seen and heard, there's no sneaky smoking or opportunity for bullying and the toilet area is very clean and new.

Why would a school need to consult parents on this? I think it's a very good idea.

I understand the bullying issue in enclosed bathrooms, but an enclosed hand washing area also provides a private space for girls to wash blood off their hands, ask other girls for spare pads etc. It's one more layer of privacy from boys which they now don't have.

@LaBellina

I would be very very concerned about how seriously this school is about safeguarding for making toilets unisex in the first place but not even mentioning it to parents is really taking it to the next level, apparently they didn’t even consider it might be a safe guarding concern. This wouldn’t sit right with me at all!

They do it without consulting parents because they know the parent body would oppose It:s a betrayal of trust and of the 'contract' between parents and school. You should ask for a public meeting with the school board. Invite the local press and have your questions about safeguarding and other matters ready.