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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Liz Truss in The Times

48 replies

teawamutu · 03/10/2021 10:25

Truss, one of the government’s most enthusiastic culture warriors, is blunter still when asked about Sir Keir Starmer’s statement that it was “wrong” for a Labour MP to say that only women have cervixes. “There’s a real problem when politicians feel afraid to say something for fear of speaking out of turn or giving offence when the vast majority of people in Britain understand that women have cervixes. I think they’d be pretty surprised to hear that the leader of the opposition was confused about that.”

Truss thinks the debate about trans rights confuses gender and biological sex: “There’s a very important difference between sex and gender and the Equality Act is very clear that single-sex spaces should be provided for and organisations should be able to distinguish on the basis of biological sex.”
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/917f0cdc-23b3-11ec-a00c-ba7759562f04?shareToken=1a442cc444c858366202fc13186dbe49

OP posts:
CuriousaboutSamphire · 03/10/2021 15:26

Not sure. Mostly beacsue we GC posters, don't hunt down, stalk and report irritating posters. They get reported in a more organic "SHit did you really just type that?" way. So they get to hang around a lot longer.

And some, so they say, negotiate a new start... and then carry on taking modified posts to Twitter to prove their point - which MNHQ says "Well, we can't control what is posted elsewhere"

TheMarzipanDildo · 03/10/2021 16:11

CatherinaJTV

I’m very left wing, I’m not going to start cosying up to or voting for the Conservatives any time soon. I agree with the Communist Party of Great Britain on this subject though so I might join that.

My response to this article is “if Liz Truss [in the process of cutting funding for women’s services] can understand this debate, why the fuck can’t the Labour Party?”

Hattie765 · 03/10/2021 16:26

@BlueBrush

Humour me with a brief digression - I don't know how accurate it was, but there was a BBC drama about the Brexit campaign, and there was a moment in which the head of the Remain campaign was in a focus group and far too late had an "oh shit" moment where he suddenly realised they'd completely misjudged how the voters felt.

When I read that paragraph, I feel myself thinking "hmmm, maybe it wouldn't be so very bad to vote Conservative". If people like me are thinking that, then the Labour Party really need an "oh shit" moment.

Anyway, this wasn't about Labour, it was about Liz Truss, and I'm so glad that despite her promotion, she's still there saying what she's saying, and getting more and more confident in expressing her views on sex and gender.

Oh thank god I'm not the only one. I had a moment reading that where I actually thought maybe I should vote conservative, fuck me I never thought that would happen.
EwwSprouts · 03/10/2021 16:43

Good to see she says it and she can say it freely.

HermioneWeasley · 03/10/2021 18:53

Thanks @Cabinfever10

Mumsnut · 03/10/2021 18:57

From the Telegraph - some sort of speech at the Tory conference:-

"Transgender people should not have the right to self-identify as a different gender without medical checks, the women and equalities minister has said.

Liz Truss, who holds the equalities brief alongside her role as Foreign Secretary, said “medical checks are important” in deciding whether people are legally transgender.

The Labour Party has called for a system of self-identification, which would allow transgender people to legally change their gender without a formal diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

Ms Truss said she agreed with comments by Rosie Duffield, a trans-critical Labour MP, who said that “only women have a cervix”.

“You see the absurdity of identity politics last week at the Labour Conference, which is ending up saying ‘women don't have cervixes,’ or whatever,” she told a recording of the Telegraph’s Chopper’s Politics Podcast at Conservative Party Conference yesterday.

“[Ms Duffield] is right, that women have cervixes.

“But more than that, she's also right to be able to express her view.

“I think when we try and brush things under the carpet and can't have an open, honest and sensible debate, I think that's a huge problem for British politics.”

'It wouldn't be right to have self-identification with no checks'
The current system for transgender people requires them to fulfil conditions to receive a Gender Recognition Certificate.

The criteria include a declaration that they will live permanently in their acquired gender, a doctor’s diagnosis of gender dysphoria and a medical report of any hormone treatment or surgery.

They must also have lived in their acquired gender for at least two years.

“I think we've taken the right approach with transgender people,” Ms Truss said.

“We've made the process simpler [and] we've made the process kinder.

“I have full respect for transgender people, however it wouldn't be right to have self identification with no checks and balances in the system.”

MrsColon · 03/10/2021 18:58

Liz Truss is great. Remember her "Women do have vaginas, Nick" moment? If she was my MP I would 100% vote for her, despite having voted Labour all my life.

ScribblingPixie · 03/10/2021 19:10

Me too. I would vote for Liz Truss if she was in my constituency. I live in a Labour/LibDem seat & the Conservatives barely bother to put up a candidate, they get about 21/2 votes. I'd be really interested to see what would happen if they put up a strong GC candidate.

PrawnofthePatriarchy · 03/10/2021 19:54

I'm a single issue voter at present. I will not vote for any party or candidate unwilling to respect women's rights.

Don't respect my sex? Don't expect my X.

teawamutu · 03/10/2021 20:15

@PrawnofthePatriarchy

I'm a single issue voter at present. I will not vote for any party or candidate unwilling to respect women's rights.

Don't respect my sex? Don't expect my X.

Exactly this. And I'm sick of spoiling my ballot.

I think conference season may have tipped me over into actively voting to keep Labour and the Lib Dems and the Greens and the entire wokey crapshow out.

Which means Tories.

Hell mend the lot of them for driving me to it.

OP posts:
tilder · 03/10/2021 21:09

I won't vote Tory. My MP knows what a woman is for sure. Doesn't mean he considers women to be equal. His voting record strongly indicates he doesn't.

He is a xenophobic, homophobic misogynist. According to his voting record. Same old same old.

Which sadly means I remain homeless.

zanahoria · 03/10/2021 21:35

I think Liz Truss will be the next Tory leader, she can use this issue as a springboard, she has made herself very popular with Tory women and I think a lot of men would vote for her too. Imagine if the Tories had their third woman leader before Labour has had one? One who has stood up for womens rights while Labour has abandoned them.

Marguerite2000 · 04/10/2021 01:37

I think Kemi Badenoch is one to watch as well.

NiceGerbil · 04/10/2021 04:04

@CatherinaJTV

and here I thought you might talk about her £183 million worth of cuts to women and equalities aid...
Do you have a link?

This was her decision and hers alone?

I have missed that I admit. V interested.

FlyingOink · 04/10/2021 06:31

@zanahoria

I think Liz Truss will be the next Tory leader, she can use this issue as a springboard, she has made herself very popular with Tory women and I think a lot of men would vote for her too. Imagine if the Tories had their third woman leader before Labour has had one? One who has stood up for womens rights while Labour has abandoned them.
That's quite stark when you put it like that
FOJN · 04/10/2021 06:54

One of my arguments against cosying up to seemingly GC politicians is that this'll be the only thing you get. "Oh yes, we'll kick the GRA reform down the road again (while we cut the women's aid budget by 60% and impose cuts that affect women disproportiately)."

No cosying up going on, just pragmatism about the least shit option.

How will you argue that cuts disproportionately affect women if we can't define what a woman is?

1Endeavour2 · 04/10/2021 08:21

Another homeless one here.

How I long for walls and a roof!

Beamur · 04/10/2021 10:37

I've never voted Conservative but I would vote for Liz Truss over Angela Rayner.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/10/2021 12:56

@Beamur

I've never voted Conservative but I would vote for Liz Truss over Angela Rayner.
Not sure that's the right kind of 'identity politics' Grin
merrymouse · 04/10/2021 13:17

"Oh yes, we'll kick the GRA reform down the road again (while we cut the women's aid budget by 60% and impose cuts that affect women disproportiately)."

As opposed to the government that will make cuts that disproportionately affect women because they can’t recognise what a woman is?

There is nothing special about a Labour governments that means it can’t be incompetent and self serving.

Bosky · 05/10/2021 04:01

@Mumsnut "Ms Truss said she agreed with comments by Rosie Duffield, a trans-critical Labour MP, who said that “only women have a cervix”."

This so pisses me off! All the newspapers do it. Anyone campaigning for women's rights or prioritising women, they are described as, at worst "anti-trans", and here, "trans-critical".

Rosie Duffield has not been "criticising trans people", which is how this reads.

I've never seen that term used before.

Do you think they started off saying "gender-critical" then decided "no one will understand what that means, how about replacing it with 'trans-critical'?"

Or is it just as deliberately misleading and provocative as Pink News calling everyone "anti-trans" if they do not toe the gender woo woo line?

ChristinaXYZ · 05/10/2021 11:39

Thanks for posting what Liz Truss said @Mumsnut . I tried to post what she said as a separate thread two days ago. I posted exactly what she said with no comment. ie just reporting what the Women and Equality Minister said with a link to the Telegraph and it has been in limbo ever since: "This thread has been hidden until the MNHQ team can have a look at it." This title was the title of the Telegraph article and makes it clear that these are the minister's words.

Mumsnet is a huge organisation with massive reach - social media companies ere under pressure not to census stuff just because they don't agree with it. Even Trump got his words left up on twitter with just a warning. But the words of UK minister for women are not suitable it would seem for Mumsnet's women's board?

It has been two days and it is still pending. Maybe they will approve it eventually but in politics moments pass and burying it for a few days has a quashing effect too.

I cannot see why, in a democracy, when there is no commentary - just a minister's words - why there is even any debate why it should be up.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4365572-Transgender-people-should-not-have-right-to-self-identify-without-medical-checks-Liz-Truss-saysTransgender-people-should-not-have-right-to-self-identify-without-medical-checks-Liz-Truss-says?

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 08/10/2021 16:12

Oh come on, MNHQ. I’ve just tried ChristinaXYZ’s link and got the same message, “This thread has been hidden until the MNHQ team can have a look at it.”

It’s been five days now, from what Christina says. If I took that long to check a reference, I wouldn’t have earned enough to feed a mouse!

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