Anyone else fiercely GC but have 'trans' teens? Need a handhold.

[AnnieLobeseder]

Title says it all really. I'm fiercely GC, have been since my children were toddlers and sticking playdough up their noses.

Now they're teens. One 16, one 13, both female, but they're both now not identifying as girls. The older one is non-binary, uses them/they pronouns, dresses fairly androgynously. The younger one changes their identity on a daily basis, dresses to the feminine stereotype, but tonight spat at me that I'm transphobic for not agreeing to use he/him pronouns.

I will go as far as using them/they pronouns for both of them. I will call them my children instead of my daughters. I will even buy them binders so that they get decent ones, not cheap damaging knock-offs. But I HATE every aspect of it.

My theory is that the teen years are for trying on a whole range of hats to see what fits. And if I make it easy for them to try this hat on, then it will be just as easy for them to take it off. Whereas if I fight them too hard and tell them they can't explore the insanity that is gender identity, they will push back and clutch that hat to their heads long after they've realised it doesn't fit at all. I reckon I'll save my fight for if and when I believe they're in real danger, like if they ever start talking about medical options.

It's just so hard, to have to nod and agree to their ridiculous terms, even though it flies in the face of everything I believe in. I've tried to gently explain my viewpoint, encourage them to just 'be' instead of hanging restrictive labels on themselves. But they just rattle the party lines back at me - I'm old, I'm transphobic, I just don't understand, trans people are dying every day because of bigoted people like me, I'm rejecting who they are and it's painful for them to hear how I hate this aspect of them....

After this blowout with the younger one tonight, they're both sleeping in the elder one's room, sharing how hard it is to be trans and queer in such a toxic environment, but at least they have each other.

They hang with the 'queer' crowd at school, the whole alphabet soup, every one of the gang with a different identity: the beautiful gay boy who is now identifying as a women, the autistic girl who now identifies as a boy because 'he' can't cope with having periods and breasts (and all the baggage that comes with the female anatomy).

I get that being a young woman is terrifying. I remember the horror as you realise how absolutely abhorrent the stereotype is that you're being pushed into. And I get that my generation all went though "I'm not like the other girls" without realising that all the other girls were feeling the same way. And now this generation is going through "I'm not a girl" for exactly the same reasons.

But my girls can't see that now, they think I'm just bigoted and hateful, and it hurts so much that I'm hurting them.

Anyone here with me?

Just tell them you love them however they decide to dress or identify.

Pay for them to individually have independent counselling. Alternate weeks if necessary to make things cheaper. Explain its to help them explore their feelings around their identity with someone independent.

I would be careful with counselling. Many (most?) will not "explore" this with kids, they will affirm whatever they are told the teens feel.

Both are in counselling because of mental health issues brought on by the pandemic. But as Lobster says, I don't expect anything useful to come out of that in terms of their gender identity - I doubt the counsellors are GC.

But my question is more about reconciling how their beliefs are at such odds with mine, and how we move forward safely. They have drunk all the kool-aid, and there's only so far I can go to pretend I've drunk it too. And more annoyingly, that I have to pretend I've drunk it in the first place, because society has painted my GC views as transphobic and me as an evil terf, and that's all my children hear.

I have a teen daughter, and a child who identifies as a transboy who is 19.

You're walking an incredibly difficult path Annie, like you I am caught in a balance between my own politics and my kids' gender politics.

I had previously thought that I would not, could not succumb to emotional blackmail or "pandering", that my own politics are firmly held and inviolable. But motherhood and parenting unhappy children has turned all those conceptions upside-down - because I will use the necessary pronouns and pander (my own feelings on this issue) my child if that's what makes him happier. It's not a state that I'm happy with, but it is just yet another adaptation I have had to make to myself along this path of parenthood.

My kid is autistic (with its own set of difficulties) and is over 18 now, legally an adult and whilst still receiving every kind of support from us parents, is determined to walk his own path. We let him know that we love him, that we don't agree with his choices but that they are his choices and decisions to make, and that we will love & support him whatever he does. I occasionally remind him that he is more than just a trans identity too.

We have paid for therapy specifically about gender identity, perhaps naively hoping that it would steer him to clarity. And whilst it was helpful for him, he is still determined to try transitioning (he seems to think that "being in the wrong body" - fixable - is the problem; whilst being autistic - probably the cause of his feelings of alienation - is not fixable and is not any problem.

Maybe I'm not explaining it clearly here, but it seems that transgender ideology offers a fixable solution to many kids' feelings of "not feeling right about themselves". Take pills and have surgery to change your body to conform with your mind, these are presented as very doable, accessible and safe(!?) options nowadays.

Whereas for my child, I definitely think that it's the autism that's led them to the feelings of "not rightness" (which cannot be fixed as easily!)

I've been called all sorts of names by my children, they've expressed "disappointment" in me over my transgender beliefs (as though that only goes in one way!). But we have reached a stage where they know we parents are only driven by concern for their health and wellbeing, not because of any fundamental hatred or bigotry against any class of people.

But we do all steer clear of any discussion of gender politics or feminism in general (although strangely we are all united against sexism and the patriarchy, but they don't join the dots in that line of thinking. Sigh.)

Have you joined Bayswater Support? Worth a look.

Good luck with it all

Rebelling from societal norms is an integral part of teenage years for many. I’m sorry I don’t have much advice but my gut says to continue to love and support (pander) because to not do so will drive a wedge between you.

AnnieLobeseder

I know just how hard this is with one child. I cannot imagine how difficult it would be with more than one to be able to find the balance and to be able to have confidence in any treatment from therapist to other treatment, but have come to understand that it is becoming more common in families. Just as it is now very very common in groups of friends and in classes.

If you are concerned about the therapy side, I wonder if genspect.org/ would be helpful. I am sure they could help with at least a set of questions to ask a prospective new therapist. I looked specifically for a therapist whose first action would not be affirming only for my teen once I realised that they needed significant support for anxiety and 4 (maybe 5, I was not sure about one) of their 6 friends declared their trans status over a six month period. I wanted to be prepared in case the topic came up, or we needed to change to therapy for gender dysphoria.

I have heard that bayswater is good.

Interestingly, I spoke to a mother of a transboy who I only just met but our daughters are close. I asked which sites she had used for support. Her comment was that too much of the Mermaids support seemed to come from a male perspective. Some of it made her incredibly uncomfortable as it felt like older male transitioners ‘educating’ young girls for their own agenda (there is a word for this but I don’t want a deletion).

oxalisRed

I think one of the issues with teenagers is (and it's not confined to this stuff) is that you say something and they hear something else entirely.

Hey, don't forget, to put your clothes away.

Becomes

You're an untidy so and so and I think you live in a pit. I hate the fact your room is so untidy and it makes me think less of you.

Or, who are you going out with?

Becomes

Tell me every detail what you're doing when you're out.. I bet those kids I hate are going to be there and you'll be doing drugs and smoking and drinking and I don't think you should be.

With GC stuff something like: oh, ok, you want to be a transman. That's nice. Although, just so that we're clear, I don't think we should deny biological reality here, I don't want you to think you can actually change sex, because your chromasomes are not changeable. You can dress however you want, be called whatever you want. Clothes can be changed and names can be changed. Oh, and just so we're clear, I don't tend to pander to flat earthists either (with a wink, trying to make them see you can't deny science)

Becomes

I hate all of your choices, I hate all trans people, I am a dinosaur who doesn't get it and I am a phobe of the highest order. I will dead name you, ignore your pro nouns because deep down I am a terf. And you're basically a flat earthist, which really shows how little you understand about gender identity politics.

My son is 16 and had a transwoman friend. I am GC. I am nice to this girl, use her preferred pro nouns and new name. But we (me and my son) were discussing something the other day and he told me I couldn't possibly understand what it was like for this friend. He went on to say that being a woman is hard and she's had it hardest of all. I said, look, if you want to know what it's like to be a woman, I suggest you ask me, because I was born a woman and have been a woman for 40 odd years, pushed 2 8lb babies out of my cervix and had 5 miscarriages. And I have a smaller pension and hate taking my car to the garage because I'm patronised every single time. I may not understand exactly what this child has been through, you're right. But neither does this child know what it is to be a woman, especially as they are still a child....

That, apparently was completely out of order and just showed how little I understood anything....

So, in your shoes, I'd keep quiet, answer questions factually and if it comes up, stick to your beliefs and remind them that respecting each others positions while disagreeing is the adult way of approaching this, so to scream at me about it is the height of immaturity.

It is one of the most difficult, emotionally draining battles you will fight as a parent.
Go to Bayswater support, you will need people who understand and who are on your side. Good luck

Sending hugs. As a mum of a teen girl, I dread the day I wake up and find she's got drawn into the trans thing. So many of her classmates are working through it.

I feel your pain, one child is hard enough.
I'm just going to lurk for a bit for any advice because at the moment I just hope everyday that she's chosen to take the trans hat off.

Can you get them doing practical/physical hobbies? not something like gymnastics which is body image orientated, but maybe martial arts, rock climbing, orienteering, bushcraft, gardening, work experience during lambing etc etc. Something to moor them to physical practical reality and using their bodies and intellects in something strength/achievement related rather than away from the tumblr/SM milieu of identity politics thought bubbles.

Thanks for the support and understanding folks, much appreciated.

Teens really do manage to tune into that one thing that most upsets you and rebel by doing that thing, don't they? I thought I was being clever having tattoos and piercings and purple hair, so they couldn't rebel by going that route. But they found it, that one things that would break me!

I will look into Bayswater Support, thanks for the heads up. It's good to know there's support out there.

@BahHumbygge - getting them out playing sport is good advice. They both play rugby on a small supportive girls' team, so I hope that helps them find themselves as strong capable young women. DC1 also does karate. DC2 used to swim, but has refused to go back since classes re-opened after COVID closures. They don't want their body on display in public - such as shame as they were really good at swimming. We'll keep fighting on that front.

@JuneOsborne - you're absolutely right about what teens hear, which is why I'm mostly just rolling with it as far as I can without losing all self-respect. Because indeed, what do my 50 years of lived experience as a women actually count for, I clearly know nothing and am just old.

@oxalisRed - huge hugs back to you, what a difficult journey it is! My two are both about to be evaluated for neurodivergent issues. We believe DC2 might be on the autistic spectrum, and yes, they also seem to think that their feeling of not fitting in or being wrong is something that can be addressed through gender, rather than seeing that it's society that is messed up. You sound like a brilliant parent to your child. I hope I can manage to be as supportive for my two.

Just want to send virtual support, I'm in a very similar position and can't say anything without being called transphobic.

I think keeping busy off of the internet is also important for these kids. That's where a lot of this stuff is coming from.

I do think it's important to try not to go on about "issues" all the time. Teens need some space to work things out, even when their thinking is still at a shallow stage. It's frustrating when an adult, with adult thinking skills, just bowls you over with ideas you can't keep up with. I suspect this is part of the reason they sometimes feel attacked, it's like sparring with someone twice your size.

On the other hand, I've made it pretty clear to my 13 year old who is in a very similar place that I won't use a new name or alternate pronouns for her. (I just avoid it for her transboy friends.) This isn't so much a matter of principle as one of practicality, in that I think it's become increasingly clear that social transition is not harmless but works to destabilize identity more, the last thing teenagers really need. It's not the same as having a punk nicname with your friends or becoming a goth, because it undermines one of the primary things teens need to develop a sense of identity/acceptance with regard to, their bodies.