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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Phalloplasty Philes- You tuber documents trans surgery realities

65 replies

TheBurmundseyIndustrialEstate · 02/10/2021 15:35

A no holds barred look by You tuber TT Exulansic at recent patients who have been through phaloplasty surgery in the US, using their own Tic tok content. She looks at the enormous costs and the horrendous yet repeated and predictable complications.

OP posts:
justaftb · 03/10/2021 14:08

@Whatwouldscullydo

And what about friends.

I mean at 18/19 - 24 ish going to college then I was working then going out and seeing friends crashing on sofas etc

Its supposed to be a time when commitments are at a low amd freedom to live is high. Before rent and mortgages and children etc

How many friends are going to wait to spend their time on and off long term , having to sit around at a mates house while they recover from yet another surgery, and are restricted witg where they go and what they do .

Its gotta take a toll on friendships/relationships. Where are they at the end of it all?

This is exactly what I've been thinking. Those years - late teens into early 20s - when you were studying and/or working, penny pinching and partying and crashing on friends' sofas. Instead of maybe travelling and see a bit of the word and getting new experiences, they are wasting their time on surgeries that will never give them the function they expect.

They are going to look back on that period of their lives and realise it was a waste of time because they still don't have a functioning penis and are still having medical interventions resulting from that surgery. They will never be happy.

What strikes me about these young people I see online who want to embark on that path is how bloody boring being in their company must be. I imagine every conversation turns back to them and their 'journey' and their 'struggle'. I think they believe that struggling with their identity is some sort of substitute for having an actual personality.

HopeClearwater · 03/10/2021 14:52

David Lammy needs to be forced to watch all these videos, right after he’s had his Introduction to Female Biology lesson.

MonsignorMirth · 03/10/2021 15:01

@ElliottSmithsfingers

I had a post deleted on another thread for suggesting trans people have mental health issues, so the current terms of the debate damage them in the first place. If somebody wanted their arms chopped off as they thought they'd be happier without, would they be humoured in the same way? And the people who urge caution slated as armless-phobes?
Yes, it happens: www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2000/12/a-new-way-to-be-mad/304671/
Whatwouldscullydo · 03/10/2021 15:55

They are going to look back on that period of their lives and realise it was a waste of time because they still don't have a functioning penis and are still having medical interventions resulting from that surgery. They will never be happy

It also seems that every step of the way every outcome just sends them further into isolation from peers. Be it watching all your friends grow up/ go thru puberty while u don't. Be it being stuck indoors while all your friends play sports because your binder stops you from breathing properly. Having to change or sleep on your own on trips because the other kids are uncomfortable with members of the opposite sex sharing with them. Or being unable to see anyone fir 48 hours after your Lupton injection because the substance is so toxic. To be constantly recovering from surgeries and repairs etc

It basically ensures that all you do is talk to others on line.

TheWeeDonkey · 03/10/2021 16:28

It does beg the other question about why so many TRAs are quite prudish about sex. Hearts not parts and all that jazz.

If a person has a vaginectomy and phalloplasty, or if someone has a penectomy and then a vaginoplasty then logically that is the end of their sex life, or at least vastly limits their sex life and you don't want to hear others talking about their sex life and sexuality when you have destroyed your own sexual function. So another way to not face what is actually going on in your life is to shame others for what is going on in their life.

LobsterNapkin · 03/10/2021 17:15

These are really interesting and I think the format of putting the story of these kids all together is useful. She has some really interesting commentary and I found the stuff about heart effects really interesting.

That being said, I don't know that these would be useful to show someone who was not already predisposed to skepticism about these procedures. I quite enjoyed some of her sarcasm, but I suspect it could make someone who wanted to remain sympathetic dismiss her thoughts.

Motorina · 03/10/2021 17:17

That exact forearm surgery is used (or, at least, used to be, when I was in that bit of healthcare) to repair the hole after cutting out some cancers. So I've been involved in caring for patients who have had exactly that.

It is, uhhh, not for the faint hearted. Which is a polite way of saying deeply unpleasant, painful, disfiguring, and potentially disabling. The graft from the thigh basically leaves you with an A4 sized deep graze, which is exactly as painful as it sounds.

Now, if you have to have it as the least awful way to plug the holes after cancer surgery then so be it. If it's to create a barely functional, leaky, infected penis where there was no physical deficit before? In kids? No. Buy a shewee if peeing standing up is that important to you.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 03/10/2021 17:18

"Im not sure tattoos even cover it, the actual flesh is removed so there's a difference in the diameter of the forearm where the tissue has been taken in comparison to the other forearm"

You've not seen the one get where they layer pigskin underneath a skin grafted from the thigh to increase diameter then....

FlyingOink · 03/10/2021 17:27

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

"Im not sure tattoos even cover it, the actual flesh is removed so there's a difference in the diameter of the forearm where the tissue has been taken in comparison to the other forearm"

You've not seen the one get where they layer pigskin underneath a skin grafted from the thigh to increase diameter then....

Shit. No, I haven't.

I feel a bit ill.

TheWeeDonkey · 06/10/2021 10:18

I just watched an episode today of a young person who had life threatening complications from hysterectomy which makes me question what informed consent really means, because this person didn't have the first clue of the gravity of their situation and still doesn't realise how lucky they are to be alive.

Also this experience has not given them one second of consideration of outside of the financial implications what the effects of their planned phalloplasty will be.

I watched most of it with my chin on the floor, just truly shocking.

OhHolyJesus · 06/10/2021 13:26

I've just watched that one too Donkey, she was right to point out the length of time that the patient waited to seek emergency treatment, was embarrassed to ask family in the house for help, potentially considered the extreme blood loss to be delayed periods (?!) and then made a mistake of going to see the surgeon an hour away only to be sent to the hospital.

I too was stuck by Exulansic's questions of whether the patient was honest about the length of time the bleed has been occurring and also how she made a point that the patient was complaining about the wait at the hospital and appeared to be frustrated. It seems like misdirected blame to me. I'm sure the hospital staff were doing their best and they are ultimately relied on to fix, heal and keep people alive following botched, elective surgeries for trans identifying people.

How much have subsequent surgery for a phalloplasty been raised by this issue of haemorrhage from this surgery?

Such a drastic approach for what is, I think, correctly labelled in the video, as a psychiatric condition.

EishetChayil · 06/10/2021 14:29

I honestly believe that the festering heart of the trans rights movement is the American medical industrial complex.

Signalbox · 06/10/2021 14:39

This lady is so interesting I couldn't stop watching...

Piecing together her background it seems she is a speech and language pathologist. She is a lesbian who experienced gender dysphoria (and talk therapy for it) during childhood. She has a native (American?) heritage. She says that "two spirit" is an "English language term thought up by modern trans activists to condense 2 continents and 15,000 years into a politically expedient soundbite".

Whatwouldscullydo · 06/10/2021 15:07

I just watched that episode wee

I am absolutely stunned that these surgeries can be allegedly carried out ethically whilst the patients are so unaware of their own biology/body make up.

Why are they so surprised at the complications. Even paracetamol has a long list of side effects on the leaflet. Such is the importance of ensuring Pele make informed choices and are aware of the consequences

Fleek · 06/10/2021 16:11

I'm glad to have had a chance to watch some of her videos but they're so distressing. It's horrific. One of the young women talks about doing tests to see if she can urinate through her newly formed penis and having the urine coming out of her 'scrotum'. Sad The whole issue of having a permanent catheter as a result....yeah, that's potentially going to kill someone in the longer term as they get repeated uti's which is really bad for you. These are healthy bodies which are being butchered.

My instinct watching was to say at least not that many women get phalloplasties. Because getting my head around it all was so hard. I mean, I think I'm actually wrong and in any case, every single person who does get one matters even if it's only a small number of women. But even when people don't go that far, many transmen take testosterone and she says in another video that that changes the cartilage in your voice box but also in your heart and blood vessels (I think?). So all these young women who take T and don't ever go further are still at significant risk of complications in years to come. Who wants to mess around with their heart? You're physically healthy and you want to change that? It's a gross act of self-harm. This is an absolute catastrophe and it's the medical profession doing this damage. Not backstreet drug dealers. Shame on them.

Signalbox · 06/10/2021 16:30

I don’t think phalloplasty is available at the moment in the UK because the Harley Street clinic that the NHS contracted to carry it out couldn’t get a contract with a hospital due to Covid. It’s hard to imagine how these expensive elective surgeries which carry such a high risk of complications are justified. They are essentially cosmetic. Presumably they won’t start them up again until the backlog of surgeries caused by Covid has shortened considerably.

Whatwouldscullydo · 06/10/2021 16:42

I really struggle with how , as TT says, these young otherwise healthy females are being rendered incontinent, almost dying of sepsis, by surgeons who literally profit from the surgery being done so.badly they require constant revision procedures on females who seem to have no idea about their own bodies who pay thousands of pounds even despite the insurance picking up the other 600 grand , these sugeoms doing this are the good guys.

Amd the women standing against this. Pointing out the huge profits in making life long medical patients with prodlvedures even being conducted on minors,.despite the job losses, the police visits, the online abuse and death and rape threats, somehow we are the bad guys in all this.

Its not us profiting from botched surgeries and treatments and a study stream of young people signing up to be left scarred, incontinent and needing PT to be able to use their hands properly. We gain nothing from speaking out. And fir many the costs have been high physically, emotionally and financially. But they do it any way because of pure concern . Not hatred. But absolute fear of what is being done to these youngsters.

I dont know how people can look.at the situation and not be highly suspicious of the money being Made , and instead chose to think.that millions of women , many who fought fit the rights if gay people to marry etc, suddenly just decided to hate everyone.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 06/10/2021 16:43

Lobster I found the stuff about heart effects really interesting

Me too - her theory that the voice changes testosterone creates in trans men is because the cartilage thickens? And, if that is affecting the vocal cords then it must also be affecting the cartilage in the heart?

shit, she must be right. When they said "experiment" they weren't joking, were they?

Whatwouldscullydo · 06/10/2021 17:17

I wonder if the sanitisation of the language around it all plays a part too.

I mean we have " top surgery"
" bottom surgery"

I'll be deleted if I sat the word that us used to describe the removal of testicle. We are talking mastectomies and what is effectively de- gloving.

Void testing I mean that doesn't sound too bad jntil u realise it means can they actually control their urination.

There's a way and a name to effectively hide very severe steps of these procedures

TheWeeDonkey · 06/10/2021 17:23

I think its interesting (if thats the right word) that following the complications from these surgeries the patient is shunted off to ER rather than their initial surgeon seeing them. Theres a lot of hand washing going on, but the patient still sees the surgeon as their saviour and the ER doctors and nurses who save their lives as the ones in the wrong.

OhHolyJesus · 06/10/2021 17:24

@Signalbox

I don’t think phalloplasty is available at the moment in the UK because the Harley Street clinic that the NHS contracted to carry it out couldn’t get a contract with a hospital due to Covid. It’s hard to imagine how these expensive elective surgeries which carry such a high risk of complications are justified. They are essentially cosmetic. Presumably they won’t start them up again until the backlog of surgeries caused by Covid has shortened considerably.
There was a bid for tender applications earlier this year (deadline was April) from NHS trust in Bristol, it included surgical services. It does also mention therapeutic services and evidence base but if WPATH is the evidence base...

bidstats.uk/tenders/2021/W15/748749038

OhHolyJesus · 06/10/2021 17:25

Speaking of WPATH

New WPATH Guidelines - SOC8 www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4367712-New-WPATH-Guidelines-SOC8

FannyCann · 06/10/2021 22:17

I don’t think phalloplasty is available at the moment in the UK because the Harley Street clinic that the NHS contracted to carry it out couldn’t get a contract with a hospital due to Covid.

Maybe the lack of a contract is Covid related @Signalbox or maybe someone in the NHS has concerns about the outcomes?

Before Covid struck someone was living in a tent protesting outside St Peter's Andrology Centre in Harley Street. They had been there from Sept 2019 to late Feb 2020 when I assume Covid meant their protest had to end.

I wonder where that person is now and how they are. Does anyone know anything about it? I'll link the thread it was on.

The Phalloplasty Philes- You tuber documents trans surgery realities
The Phalloplasty Philes- You tuber documents trans surgery realities
The Phalloplasty Philes- You tuber documents trans surgery realities
FannyCann · 06/10/2021 22:19

Here is the thread where the case was discussed as well as a different case which was the OP.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3833079-Horrendous-case-transgender-surgery?pg=5

FannyCann · 06/10/2021 22:21

These private clinics may do these surgeries, but the NHS is where the damaged patients will end up when they become septic or develop kidney problems from repeated uti's or other complications.