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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Help me find some arguments re women walking home at night

30 replies

Redredwiney · 02/10/2021 09:36

I have a male cousin whose views I often disagree with. He’s very old school (bordering on racist and sexist). We spend days, sometimes weeks and months debating about something but I do so because half the time he eventually starts to agree with my POV and change his way of thinking, which is why I persevere!

The current discussion is around Sarah Everard and how women should feel safe when we walk home, and that telling us to be careful is putting the onus on us rather than teaching men to not rape, grope, etc.

His response is that this is no different to men having to also be careful in case they’re mugged or come across a drunken lout who wants a fight when they’re out late. He says in an ideal world we all shouldn’t be worried but because bad people exist, we just have to be careful. He even made the point that when he used to live in a dodgy part of London, he would carry his keys in his hand just in case he needed to protect himself, just like women are accustomed to doing.

I don’t quite know how to respond to that, which is not often the case…! Can anyone help me for when we next talk about it?

OP posts:
EmbarrassingAdmissions · 02/10/2021 12:46

@Floisme

I've just watched a part of Triggernometry and they fail to understand this. They frame WC as part of a very small number of psychopaths who do this. They reject calls for men to talk about this as if it's anything to do with them.

Disappointing but not surprising. You would think that decent, intelligent men would realise it's their own interest to acknowledge and tackle this - after all, as the op's cousin has said, they are vulnerable too - but, with a few honourable exceptions, there seems to be a complete blind spot.

I can't see that they've ever invited on Michael Conroy, David Challen, or similar.

menatworkcic.org/who-we-are/

www.davidchallen.com

FlemCandango · 02/10/2021 14:18

I lived in Leeds at the time Peter Sutcliffe (and Jimmy Saville!) was still actively murdering/ harming women. I understand the sensitivity about the phrase, but tbh it was in part the failures of the Yorkshire police force that enabled them to continue as long as they did. It is a beautiful part of the world but I am not sentimental about Yorkshire.

If PS had not been caught how would the serial murders in Yorkshire be referenced?

Floisme · 02/10/2021 14:27

Yes I was thinking specifically of David Challen.

And I don't think the op's cousin is wrong about men being victims of male violence too. They absolutely are. I have a young adult son and I worry about him. What I find so dispiriting is when men - correctly - quote figures about male victims but then, when shown the figures about perpetrators they cannot / will not see a pattern. Instead they fall back on words like 'bad people' or 'psychopaths' or 'monsters' or 'terrorists', anything it seems other than acknowledge what must surely be right in front of their noses.

Floisme · 02/10/2021 14:28

Sorry x post.

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