Freddie thread zapped

[GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman]

The usual:
'Message from MNHQ: There are a few posts here breaking talk guidelines and reading through we don't think the thread is in the spirit of the site. We felt best to remove it.'

Someone (Freddie) goes on the radio and claims that mangling the English language doesn't harm women, just a few days after we've been called 'bodies with vaginas' by the Lancet. We've been dehumanised and reduced to a single hole, but no harm done, eh?

Women are angry, but we may not discuss our anger.

Bloody fabulous.

A bit late to the thread.

I heard the programme and couldn't get my head around it.

Is the female to male transition funded by the NHS? Parts of it?
How did the man called Freddy get pregnant?
Why would someone pregnant take hormones?
Are hormones like the contraceptive pill dangerous to a foetus?
Are abortion medicines taken orally bad for a foetus if only part of the course is taken?
Why this was aired on prime time radio?

I have name changed for this but am a regular MNer. (balonz, penis beaker, listed building patio doors, what's hugo short for etc)

Yes
fertility clinic
stops taking hormones first
probably, who knows, research lacking
dunno
dunno

@BornAWoman, good questions. You may not know that the interviewee, Freddie, got a Gender Recognition Certificate and went to the fertility clinic shortly afterwards. This is all on the public record as F was making a documentary about it all. Then after the baby was born F went to court to try to get the baby's birth certificate changed to show F as father rather than mother. This failed. Many contradictory behaviours here.

Dunno. There seems to be quite a lot of evidence of the harmful effects of exogenous testosterone when it goes by its other name of anabolic steroid.

This photo of an excerpt from (iIrc) Faust's Gold was shared on on Twitter by a detransitioning woman who was never told about this side of testosterone.

Thanks @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g. I might relisten. I was only half listening because I was thinking the world had gone mad and that my opinion on the gender stuff would probably need to be that it was just marvellous or I needed to not have an opinion.

If it makes any difference I am acquainted with more than one woman who was not born with a cervix.

I am wary of expression opinions because I fear that I might get banned or accused of all sorts of things. My mentality is that you get what you're given and you deal with it, and that is probably not acceptablr any more.

If you listen to The Archers (it's on Radio 4 so it is sort of related) Pip took some of her termination course but not the second part, and I wondered if that might not have had an impact on the foetus.
I have also wondered if the contraceptive pill taken in early and not so early pregnancy might not have an effect on the developing foetus.

If hormones released into the water system through sewage is considered potentially damaging to wildlife, then what are they doing to foetuses when released through the placenta?

Apologies about the poor English and typos. A bit nervous.

Lots of contradictions - to feel so dissatisfied with your own female biology that you reject it yet then are willing to do the thing that only women can do. Incomprehensible to me.......

Quite.
Only now men can do it too. Can't they?

@BornAWoman

Quite. Only now men can do it too. Can't they?

No. They can't. Trans men can, if they have managed to avoid cross sex hormone induced hysterectomy.

Did Freddy talk about how excluded Freddy is when the Lancet publishes articles on prostate problems but use the word “men” because “not all men have a prostate”?

This is a good question.
And why would Freddy be asked to comment on anything to do with how women should be described? Seeing as Freddy is legally a man and very much identifies themselves as male?
Aren’t there other more relevant issues to interview FTM transgender people on, rather than issues to do with how other women object to being called ‘bodies’, and not even ‘people’. Let alone the proper term ‘women’.?

Unless of course the journalists don’t take any of these issues for women or transmen seriously or respectfully at all and were just hoping for a massive bunfight..

Is the female to male transition funded by the NHS? Parts of it?

Yes. The sperm was purchased, the embryo creation and Implantation I believe was done by a fertility clinic funded by the NHS in F's area, presumably under the same post code literary as everyone else.

The cost of the sperm was a source of complaint as shown in the documentary.

How did the man called Freddy get pregnant?

Not through artificial insemination but IVF, so eggs were harvested and fertilised by fertility Dr with the sperm of the sperm donor of choice by F, and at the time F's partner, as shown in the documentary available on BBC iPlayer I think, entitled Seahorse.

Why would someone pregnant take hormones?
F came off the hormones prior to the IVF, as it was about 10 or 11 days after getting the GRC, F must have been off the hormones for a few months I'm guessing. Odd that after getting a GRC the priority wasn't changing medical NHS records noting F for Female to M for (legal) male, but instead the priority was becoming pregnant.

An FTM in America, who knows F, had to change their medical insurance records from an M back to an F for the purposes of having maternity care covered for their pregnancy.

Are hormones like the contraceptive pill dangerous to a foetus?

Yes, as shown by PP, I imagine that was the advice from Drs and that why F came off them. F has said on F'a social media that hormones don't affect your fertility but does add a disclaimer to you tube videos etc. Viewers or followers who appear to be quite young see F as an inspiration as they themselves hope to follow in F's footsteps and have a biological child of their own one day, even though IIRC, one young person was already on puberty blockers.

Why this was aired on prime time radio?

This was in direct response I believe to the discussion around whether only women have a cervix. The BBC invited F on as an example of someone who is legally male but who is biologically female and has a cervix as F isn't an FTM person who has had an elective surgery to remove their vagina, womb and ovaries. F retained them after the birth of son SJ to have another baby. F Is pregnant again following an miscarriage at the end of last year.

I remember a scene from Seahorse where F had removed the label or crossed off the word woman I think, on the pack of folic acid as it was triggering.

@HopeClearwater

That person WENT ON NATIONAL RADIO and we can’t talk about it?

Nope.

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Freddy is the only one who has used their pregnancy / birth to try and change the law afaik?

Indirectly. Freddy wanted Freddy's child's birth certificate changed, would require a change in law (if I understand correctly). Thank goodness common sense prevailed and Freddy was told that Freddy was the mother, not the father, of the child.

@Clymene

Interestingly I've just read the form. On the application form, I couldn't find this bit: 'intend to live permanently in their acquired gender until death' anywhere on the form. So you have to provide evidence from other people vur you don't have to sign anything saying you will live in your acquired gender until your death.

Whatever that means.

It is nonsensical because liv[ing] in your acquired gender" means whatever you want it to mean as gender is nothing more than feelings. If you do nothing to change anything in your life, you can argue that you are living in your acquired gender.

Freddy wanted to be on the birth certificate as the father of a child he has given birth to and who was created when his egg was fertilised by a sperm donor?

World's gone mad

@YetAnotherSpartacus

MNHQ tends to have issues with discussing individual people as opposed to more general theme

Unless their names are 'Meghan"or 'Harry"

Or Donald Trump or the Royal Family. The H & M are sacred cows and anything less than slavering adoration is forbidden; the latter can have anything said about them and that is allowed.

Two weights; two measures.

@BornAWoman

Freddy wanted to be on the birth certificate as the father of a child he has given birth to and who was created when his egg was fertilised by a sperm donor?

World's gone mad

Yes. Can you imagine the poor child's confusion when they start to ask how babies are made and who their father is? I believe that they have a sibling on the way so at least they will know someone who shares their feelings.

I had quite enough to think about as a child that my parents had DTD and that I'd been pushed out of a vagina.

By the time the offspring of Fredy has it explained it will be explained in terms that will bear no resemblance to what my generation was told

www.instagram.com/p/CUKyZlBDqBL/

Freddy has that base covered already with a book out next year.

Freddie thread zapped

Freddie Threadie Deaddie?

@RufustheBadgeringReindeer

So it’s more than clear that the “inclusive” language is just a way of dehumanising women under the pretence that it’s “inclusive

And honestly anyone in real life or in the media or politics or posters on here who says that this is inclusive when it is not happening to men…is either a fucking liar or so stupid I can’t believe that they can breathe and walk at the same time

And in the interests of fairness they can pick, either stupid or a liar cos its one or the other

This.

“It is nonsensical because liv[ing] in your acquired gender" means whatever you want it to mean as gender is nothing more than feelings. If you do nothing to change anything in your life, you can argue that you are living in your acquired gender.” AlphonsoTheDinosaur

Bingo.
Policy and law makers (writers) are now so behind the salad woke curve, that nothing they write could ever be inclusive enough. (abusive relationship dynamics anyone?)
Just keep changing the goal posts and rules to stay ahead of the game.
& it is a game.

I see parallels in so many industries - tech, creation of financial instruments…

Push, push, push the line until it bears no resemblance to the original. Small, well placed pressure points. Nothing too big to start with - we don’t want to frighten the cattle.
Hey presto - the argument is now not the salad woke curve language but how far the original law now differs from (the incoherent but well meaning) public sentiment.

“Ahhh, this is what you wanted all along sir. Well why didn’t you say so”.
Why indeed. No one runs the marathon with no training. Little by little, yard by yard. Eyes on the prize.

This is how to get laws changed.