Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Macmillian Still Erasing Women

49 replies

WomanNotAVagina · 24/09/2021 21:10

Macmillan erasing women has been discussed on here before. (They are a Stonewall Champion)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4304811-macmillan-cancer-support

They’d removed mention of woman, women and female from their cervical cancer pages. There was feedback from women and they updated their pages however since then they have been quietly erasing the words women and female from their new web site ‘to be inclusive’ whilst not erasing men and male to the same extent.

These searches are on their old main site
www.macmillan.org.uk
Women 663
Woman 151
Female 293
Men 587
Man 860
Male 313

These searches are on their new site
Women 45
Woman 19
Female 7
Men 1031
Man 369
Male 14

Obviously this is a crude (but striking) comparison. Some of the search results will be spurious but you’d expect that to even up. And it feels like they are gaslighting when they say it’s to be inclusive. Women will die unnecessarily with their mangling of language around female specific cancers. It’s confusing, offensive and discriminatory srh.bmj.com/content/41/4/248

I know its probably pointless raising this again as all we can do is redirect our money to other charities that are not afraid to call us women but they used to be such a good charity its just sad

OP posts:
Catabogus · 25/09/2021 11:45

Oh sure - agreed! But in the context of a page about boys/men, the quoted text seems fine to me. Very different if it’s implying all babies have them.

TheGoogleMum · 25/09/2021 14:49

I was going to contact them but they want my name and address and things! That's a lot of info they'll have on me they don't need

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 25/09/2021 14:53

@TheGoogleMum

I was going to contact them but they want my name and address and things! That's a lot of info they'll have on me they don't need
Quote their own address.

Name: IIdentifyYouAsAnOrganisation IDoNotTrustWithMyDetails

PeppermintMocha · 25/09/2021 14:59

@Catabogus

Fully agree re the disparity in men and women as search terms - which is outrageous - but I’m not sure what’s wrong with this:

the testicles develop inside the tummy (abdomen) of an unborn baby. Usually, they drop down (descend) into the scrotum at birth, or within the first year. Sometimes this doesn’t happen so the child has surgery to bring the testicle into the scrotum"

Am I missing something?

besides the fact that it doesn't say boys/males, it also seems inaccurately explained. If someone didn't know what testicles were, telling them that they are formed in the tummy (which surely in most people's minds means - and comes from the word - 'stomach', not abdomen), this will be even more confusing! Abdomen, fine, refers to the area more generally.
StrangePlanesforStrangeDays · 25/09/2021 15:26

Oh sure - agreed! But in the context of a page about boys/men, the quoted text seems fine to me. Very different if it’s implying all babies have them.

The sentence is complete nonsense. Complete nonsense does not belong in healthcare literature. Accurate information and clarity does. Reliance on other minimal wording from context to make it accurate, which may not be read, is at best inexcusably poor writing, and at worst ideology undermining healthcare literature.

In any other circumstance normal world they would have clearly said male unborn babies/unborn baby boys. That is the only way to be accurate.

CindersPumpkin · 25/09/2021 15:33

They were horrible to me when I had cancer, very nasty indeed when I was requesting not to be involved in being abused and gaslighted.

Sadly many women fundraise for them and leave money in wills, not in my name please.

Raggedyanabell · 25/09/2021 15:37

@CindersPumpkin

They were horrible to me when I had cancer, very nasty indeed when I was requesting not to be involved in being abused and gaslighted.

Sadly many women fundraise for them and leave money in wills, not in my name please.

That is shocking!! I'm so sorry you had to go through that on top of cancer 💐 they have lost their morality and compassion, and for what??

It's such a betrayal to the women who raise money for them and the women who look to them for support.

CindersPumpkin · 25/09/2021 15:42

I have been more unwell with other things, I laughed saying yeah I have the magic sympathy illness, as I got zero for the others.

Yes you aren't allowed as a service user freedom to not believe what they pretend to like the naked Emperor's special people believe in.

I have not the interest or strength to fight them for disability and religious/philosophical beliefs discrimination and being a survivor of DV request for safeguarding.

SpindleWorld · 25/09/2021 16:07

I've just asked them who's more likely to leave them money in their wills.

I don't think it's the blue-haired babies.

And now it's not me either.

What a ridiculous own-goal from Macmillan. Same with Hospice UK's position. Fuck off. There are other causes and charities available.

ANewCreation · 25/09/2021 16:22

If each time Macmillan say the word 'woman' they also have to say the words 'trans men', that could quickly double their use of the word 'men', I guess.

Spent yesterday morning helping run a coffee morning for them. Can confirm that no local prostate havers helped with the organisation, baking, serving or tidying up afterwards...

WomanNotAVagina · 25/09/2021 16:47

@ANewCreation

If each time Macmillan say the word 'woman' they also have to say the words 'trans men', that could quickly double their use of the word 'men', I guess.

Spent yesterday morning helping run a coffee morning for them. Can confirm that no local prostate havers helped with the organisation, baking, serving or tidying up afterwards...

So in theory every time they say ‘men’ they should say ‘and trans women’ which would increase the number of times they say ‘women’ but they don’t do that - I wonder why Hmm
OP posts:
ArcheryAnnie · 25/09/2021 16:53

@donquixotedelamancha

I think it's pretty clear that there is a difference in the way male and female cancers are discussed on that website.

What is fallopian tube cancer? The fallopian tubes are two fine tubes that link the ovaries to either side of the womb. It can affect women, trans men and people assigned female at birth.

What is prostate cancer? Prostate cancer is the most common cancer in men in the UK.

What is womb cancer? The womb (uterus) is a pear-shaped organ where a baby is carried during pregnancy....Womb cancer can affect anyone who has a womb. This includes women, trans men and people assigned female at birth.

What is penile cancer? Penile cancer (cancer of the penis) is rare......The penis is the male sex organ.

Fucking hell. Couldn't be clearer, could it?
PostingForTheFirstTime · 25/09/2021 17:02

[email protected] is the press office/PR team email address. I've emailed them a screenshot of the OP and asked them how they can justify editing their web site in this way. I'll keep you posted.

Congressdingo · 25/09/2021 17:21

This is becoming so normal. Men are men while women are not women
Well depending on the day, we are 'non men' or bodies with vaginas.

SpindleWorld · 25/09/2021 17:25

Maybe we should write to the legacy teams of these bloody charities, and ask them if they know what their ridiculous colleagues are up to and why their big income stream will be dropping as a consequence?

Macmillan Cancer Support
Legacy Income Team
Macmillan Cancer Support
PO Box 791
YORK
YO1 0NJ

Blackandwhitehorse · 25/09/2021 18:01

I contacted them when they referred to ‘people with cervixes’ on Twitter. They responded with the usual we are being inclusive and as I had pointed out the discrepancy with prostate cancer they said they were in the middle of updating their website. This was a month or so ago

Blackandwhitehorse · 25/09/2021 18:05

This was their full response. I didn’t bother to respond there was too much to correct them on!

Thank you for contacting us with your concerns about the use of gender-neutral language in our cancer information. I apologise for any offence or upset caused, as this is never our intention.

Macmillan wants to be here for everyone living with cancer. As an organisation we want to do everything we can do to level the playing field and use our voice on behalf of those that are under-served, under-represented and marginalised to ensure everyone gets the support that is right for them.

I wanted to reassure you about the reasons for the discrepancy you raise, and that it has now been resolved. All our information is reviewed and updated regularly, both by expert health professionals and people living with cancer, but because of the sheer volume of content we can’t do this all at once. Unfortunately, the impact of the pandemic meant that Macmillan had to make some difficult decisions about resource so we weren’t able to update all our information as quickly as we would have liked. We had already made changes in some areas, like the pages on cervical cancer, but not yet in others. Our team is working hard to put this right and the language with relation to cancers like testicular and prostate cancer has either already been changed or will be imminently.

Gender-neutral language or gender-inclusive language is language that avoids bias towards a particular sex or social gender. A person may identify with a gender that is different from their birth sex or with no gender at all; even though for many people their sex and gender are the same.

Not everyone who has a cervix, for example, identifies as female, so when we are talking about specific body parts we use language that reflects that it’s not just women who have that body part and that not having that body part makes no one less of a woman.

Ultimately our information will only use gender specific language where clinically necessary, in order to make our information really clear (for example, when referring to male or female hormones or anatomical structures), so we are not inadvertently discouraging anyone from seeking the holistic support they need. Wherever this happens we will always try to remain inclusive. For example, we might explain that if you have had gender affirming surgery or are intersex, your body may be different in some ways to what we describe here. In relation to cervical cancer we use: “women, transmen and people who were assigned female at birth”.

Our use of the word gender is inclusive and respects identity, so everyone feels they can come to us for much-needed information and support, this follows a similar approach to the NHS. This approach to our content is part of our commitment to ensure that our services, including the information we provide, are tackling inequalities and removing barriers for everyone living with cancer to get the support that they need.

Clearly there is more work to be done to help people understand their bodies and the importance of screening, such as cervical screening. The NHS automatically invites people who are registered as eligible to screening tests and we will continue to provide information and support about why these are important.

I hope my explanation of our rationale is helpful and I trust you feel you can hold Macmillan Cancer Support and the services we provide for those living with cancer in high regard. If I can be of any further help, please email me on [email protected] or call 0300 1000 200.

Janaih · 25/09/2021 18:26

That's some word salad bullshit.

Deliriumoftheendless · 25/09/2021 18:26

@ANewCreation

If each time Macmillan say the word 'woman' they also have to say the words 'trans men', that could quickly double their use of the word 'men', I guess.

Spent yesterday morning helping run a coffee morning for them. Can confirm that no local prostate havers helped with the organisation, baking, serving or tidying up afterwards...

Well, you say that, but without having the Anus Inspectors* in looking up their bums how can any of us be sure?

As Toyah said, it’s a mystery.

*Good punk band name, but not a job I fancy applying for myself.

Escapedgoats · 25/09/2021 19:21

Just cancelled my DD.

TrainedByCats · 26/09/2021 11:00

Oh look we’re ‘ladies’ when they want our money shop.macmillan.org.uk/products/ladies-macmillan-running-vest

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 26/09/2021 11:20

[quote TrainedByCats]Oh look we’re ‘ladies’ when they want our money shop.macmillan.org.uk/products/ladies-macmillan-running-vest[/quote]
Crude binaries are useful when they're income-generating.

At all other times, it doesn't matter if abandoning these useful binaries damages your communications because:
– you're pitching at a health literacy level that doesn't exist for the average adult;
– you're using circumlocutions that are unfamiliar to people with good health literacy and creating questions and uncertainty.
Remember, being inclusive, even when it excludes the largest relevant audience, is progressive and will get you SW points, and that's all that counts.

ChristinaXYZ · 26/09/2021 13:18

Brilliant OP

Thank you for collating.

Also thanks to @donquixotedelamancha for finding those stark comparisons. It makes writing another letter of complaint easier.

CityMumma78 · 27/09/2021 11:57

This is a perfect example of how women/females are slowly being erased but men/males remain unaffected in the mainstream! What can we do, who do we lobby, why doesn’t the media pick this up??? Stonewall really has a lot to answer for. Heartbreaking, I feel we have gone back 100 years.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page