Media reporting the murder of women

[PaleGreenGhost]

Wouldn't it be great if we could get a national newspaper to agree to report every single murder of a woman, on a prominent page, daily. With a dedicated reporter liaising with police forces and trained in writing non victim-blaming reports that don't obscure the perpetrator. Just as a time defined trial.

I mean obviously it wouldn't be great it would be devastating.

I know the femicide census exists but having every crime reported at the time, reported as if they are of national urgency and seen by people not necessarily looking for that information, might help make the sheer scale of the crime visible.

@Fariha31

But its the fact that their women is the deciding factor. A man would not mind if his son was lax in his religious observance or had a girlfriend but would kill his daughter.

But we don’t know that without investigating and interrogating the murderer. He could be equally prepared to kill a son as a daughter for similar transgression. That’s all I’m saying, we cannot assume that if a woman is murdered it is always because she is a woman.

I disagree. Men murder women because they are women (and therefore men think they have the right to controle/punish them0
Men kill other men for loads of different reasons.

@Fariha31

But its the fact that their women is the deciding factor. A man would not mind if his son was lax in his religious observance or had a girlfriend but would kill his daughter.

Agree. You never hear of wives killing their husbands who have come out as gay or mothers killing their sons who have changed religion. Does that ever happen? It’s because the perpetrator is male and the victim female that it happens. I always reverse the sexes when I hear about murders and it flags up to me immediately how you never see the sexes behave in reverse. Middle age Women do not abduct sexually assault and murder young men off the street. It just doesn’t happen. Why not if the sexes are equal?

despite years of propaganda there is still the viceral feeling of unfairness in the general public
Not sure I'm reading you correctly, Fariha; I think "what did she do to to provoke/cause that?" is still part of most people's automatic reactions to news of VWAG. I have consciously to overwrite that internal narrative more often than not. Victim blaming is deeply ingrained .

Also murders dont make reliable informants so asking would not get you that far.
Most men who murder women will tell you with all sincerity (and many will believe it) that they had to kill them becase the women were abusing the men.

He could be equally prepared to kill a son as a daughter for similar transgression.

Unless and until men actually do kill their sons for perceived religious transgressions at the same rate as they kill their daughters, that would be an absurd assumption to make.

@theThreeofWeevils

despite years of propaganda there is still the viceral feeling of unfairness in the general public Not sure I'm reading you correctly, Fariha; I think "what did she do to to provoke/cause that?" is still part of most people's automatic reactions to news of VWAG. I have consciously to overwrite that internal narrative more often than not. Victim blaming is deeply ingrained .

I know what you mean about victim blaming, it happens a lot, espicially with the police but I still think there is alot of disapproval of male violence to women in the general population.

My critique still stands

It might to you and that's understandable.

I just think we would make more progress at eliminating murder

From a fair number of threads and exposure to your posts, it's not my impression that you engage in good faith nor consider the substantial material to which you're referred. Nonetheless, I'd invite you again to pass along your comments to Level Up if you wish their guidelines to be amended in favour of your assertions.

This thread is about the murder of women. I've no idea why you haven't created a thread about your perspective: if we worked together against male violence instead of dividing ourselves into two camps based on the sex of the victims.

I'd reject such a crude description as your 'camp binary'. As allmywhat summarised so well, there are practical solutions at a feasible scale for women's deaths (the topic of this thread). Part of this discussion is about plausible policy that would remediate what leads up to those deaths. If it turns out to split by sex when scaled action is considered that is interesting. As ever, better data collection would help. As the recent Observer femicide series demonstrated, it isn't that easy to understand the scale of VAWG above a certain age.

@Fariha31

Also murders dont make reliable informants so asking would not get you that far. Most men who murder women will tell you with all sincerity (and many will believe it) that they had to kill them becase the women were abusing the men.

A court psychiatrist would disagree with you on this.

No, I think a court psychiatrist would very much agree actually.

Men who kill women have a deep sense of grivence against women and believe their actions are totally justified.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Why only women? Over 70% of murder victims are men. So we just what, ignore them?

Yawn

I think women in any case do care about male violence, many of us have sons and want them safe but I can absolutely still see that violence against women and girls is different to male on male violence. I worry more about my teenage daughter than my teenage son. I never worry about my husband out late at night. He can handle himself and in time my son will be able to do so too but my daughter will remain vulnerable no matter what her age. She can’t grow out of being at risk of assault as Sabina’s murder shows. My son will stop being a teenage boy and grow into a man and become safer walking the streets.

@allmywhat

He could be equally prepared to kill a son as a daughter for similar transgression.

Unless and until men actually do kill their sons for perceived religious transgressions at the same rate as they kill their daughters, that would be an absurd assumption to make.

It doesn’t have to be in the same numbers 50/50 by sex to not be a root cause in individual cases. That’s like saying race can’t be a root cause for homicide unless half the victims are men and half are women.

“Muslim Father Kills Son for His Christian Faith, Sources Say. NAIROBI, Kenya, August 19, 2021 ( Morning Star News) - The Muslim father of a 20-year-old convert to Christianity in Uganda on Sunday (Aug. 15) killed him for refusing to recant his faith”
www.christianheadlines.com/blog/muslim-father-kills-son-for-his-christian-faith-sources-say.html

There's a thread in AIBU at the moment of tangential interest

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4356562-Our-society-just-doesn-t-work-for-women?pg=2

From a fair number of threads and exposure to your posts, it's not my impression that you engage in good faith nor consider the substantial material to which you're referred.

Personal attack is the refuge of you know who.

This thread is about the murder of women.
Yes, I know. I just have big picture view that murder is murder. Nothing wrong with expressing my opinion that if a national newspaper were to be convinced to publish every murder of a woman, perhaps the “true scale of the crime” of murder might be better achieved if the newspaper reported on the entirety of murder, instead of less than half of murders.

It doesn’t have to be in the same numbers 50/50 by sex to not be a root cause in individual cases

Sure, but that's got nothing to do with what I said. We're talking about patterns here, not exceptions. I could google you 50 or a hundred or a thousand headlines about fathers killing daughters for religious reasons, but what's the point? Everyone already knows this is a form of VAWG.

And yes, it has to be 50/50 in the same numbers not to assume the sex of the victim is a factor.

I just have big picture view that murder is murder

Wow, and here's me thinking that trying to Google up individual counterexamples when other people are discussing big-picture patterns is the precise opposite of a big-picture view.

@Fariha31

I disagree. Men murder women because they are women (and therefore men think they have the right to controle/punish them0 Men kill other men for loads of different reasons.

Not true, men also kill women for many reasons.

This one because she remarried to a “hillbilly”
www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/ex-husband-killed-ex-wife-because-she-remarried-he-didnt-want-that-hillbilly-to-get-all-his-stuff-and-his-wife-prosecutors/ar-AALkrc5

This one because he wanted the life insurance money
www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/gay-man-killed-wife-insurance-money-prosecutors-article-1.1382300

Here’s a wife who had her husband shot and fed to alligators, also for life insurance money
www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/husband-s-death-was-blamed-alligators-prosecutors-say-his-wife-n946926

It just takes a little reading to see that murderers of women have more reasons/excuses/motivations than “because she was a woman” or “she was abusing me”.

@allmywhat

It doesn’t have to be in the same numbers 50/50 by sex to not be a root cause in individual cases

Sure, but that's got nothing to do with what I said. We're talking about patterns here, not exceptions. I could google you 50 or a hundred or a thousand headlines about fathers killing daughters for religious reasons, but what's the point? Everyone already knows this is a form of VAWG.

And yes, it has to be 50/50 in the same numbers not to assume the sex of the victim is a factor.

it has to be 50/50 in the same numbers not to assume the sex of the victim is a factor.

Oh I agree sex is a factor. But that is very different from stating that sex is always the root cause of the murder of women.

@PlanDeRaccordement

From a fair number of threads and exposure to your posts, it's not my impression that you engage in good faith nor consider the substantial material to which you're referred.

Personal attack is the refuge of you know who.

This thread is about the murder of women.
Yes, I know. I just have big picture view that murder is murder. Nothing wrong with expressing my opinion that if a national newspaper were to be convinced to publish every murder of a woman, perhaps the “true scale of the crime” of murder might be better achieved if the newspaper reported on the entirety of murder, instead of less than half of murders.

I think most people would be aware than an observation should not be construed in such a way.

As for the rest, I am detecting that several posters on a thread in a UK forum about the reporting of the murder of women are a little ?? about the introduction of a death in Nigeria and several deaths in the USA in a manner that seems to be intended as counterpoints.

It just takes a little reading to see that murderers of women have more reasons/excuses/motivations than “because she was a woman” or “she was abusing me”

How can you have been posting on this board for so long and still be unaware that misogynists do not generally acknowledge that they are misogynists? They never say "because she was a woman." They say "because she was a TERF" or "because she brought dishonour on the family" or "because she was abusing me by not having my dinner on the table at 5pm" or "because she didn't respect me" or "because she was a prostitute" or "because she was asking for it."

Who gives a shit what men who hurt women say, about themselves or about the women they hurt? The words of misogynists have zero value, and carry zero insight, they just serve to flap their over-inflated entitled egos around like a windsock. Fuck their excuses. Never, ever pay attention to their excuses.

@PlanDeRaccordement

I’m a man - not sure if you’re a man or a woman - and I’m surprised that you can’t see the difference between most murders of men and most murders if women.

While the perpetrators in nearly all cases are men, the cause of the murders of men and the cause of the murders of women are very different. As a result, the (potential) solutions and are also very different.

I think most people would be aware than an observation should not be construed in such a way.

Best nonapology ever. And from someone so concerned about posting “in good faith” absolutely hilarious.

As for the rest, I am detecting that several posters on a thread in a UK forum about the reporting of the murder of women are a little ?? about the introduction of a death in Nigeria and several deaths in the USA in a manner that seems to be intended as counterpoints.

Are you suggesting that U.K. murderers and murders are materially different from foreign murderers and murders? And here I was thinking murder was a human problem.

Not all, but a lot of murders of men are drug and gang related. There's really interesting and compelling stuff about how legalising drugs would help with that. Addiction, poverty, really big, necessary issues to focus on.

Not all, but a lot of the male murders of women, seem to be driven by an underlying attitude that women are expendable, disposable, lesser than, objects, vessels, your mother, incubators, sex toys, whatever.

I don't think this attitude is explored enough in mainstream media. In fact I see it upheld.