The judgment in Keira Bell's case will be given tomorrow

[MaudTheInvincible]

The judgment of the Tavistock's appeal of the case will be given at 2pm.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/royal-courts-of-justice-cause-list/royal-courts-of-justice-daily-cause-list

Brave Keira. You have done so much to protect children from ideologically driven healthcare around the world. Your integrity and courage is inspiring and rare in this ridiculous day and age. 💚🤍💜

Why don't you google the words testosterone, women and cancer and see what you get disgusted

To quote from a Twitter account:

"The Court of Appeal have overturned the Keira Bell ruling, effectively giving the green light for children to 'decide' to choose a medical pathway that will eventually sterilise them."

I feel sickened by the posters celebrating this judgement. It's like celebrating the right of parents to perform female genital mutilation, or the right of adults to have sexual relations with children.

How can anyone celebrate giving children harmful medication that will permanently damage their bones? That will mean they never go through puberty? That will lead to perfectly healthy young women taking testosterone and having double mastectomies?

I cannot conceive how people can be so lacking in any kind of moral compass that you celebrate this. It's sickening.

I just want to repost what nauticant said upthread:

Like others, I think the appeal with be successful and the decision of the lower court (the High Court) will be overturned. I think the basis for the overturning will be that the case was a judicial review and the lower court got drawn into thinking about right and wrong when they should have been considering whether the practice of the Tavistock was legal.

If I've guessed correctly, and I hope I haven't, there'll be huge celebrations by trans activists, Maugham will be intolerable, but after the party when they see where things stand, and when their demands for things to return to how they were end up being ignored, they'll realise that this wasn't about what a court decided but was about professionals being reminded of their responsibilities, in the context of growing public awareness, and exposure to sunlight. This genie won't be fitting back neatly into the bottle.

I agree with this assessment. We have long come to realise that our preference for judicial reviews (that seek to right a wrong for everyone, without seeking to penalise individuals) was probably misguided, even if we had some success with them.

This is the second judgement that clearly acknowledged harm may be done by these policies and that the right way to address these harms is to sue for damages.

This will, in the end, also lead to policies being changed, but it is a very different and in many ways much more difficult to endure for the individuals in question as they will then also be accused of doing it purely for personal, financial gain.

The Tavistock will not in my view go on to happily sail into the sunset. The High Court judgement was a shot across their bows, and the NICE review of puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones has holed them under the waterline.

The ship is sinking. Who goes down with it will now depend on the lawsuits to come, but what was uncovered thanks to Keira Bell and Mrs A cannot ever be hidden away again.

That’s a fair question and id say that not everyone who is transgender will want to change their bodies and of course that’s ok!

These are highly personal and individual decisions. To answer your question, Gender identity is different from gender expression. How we present ourselves to the world is totally down to an individual.

Thanks, and I hate to bang on but that doesn't answer my question at all! How do you define gender identity? What does it have to do with a biological sexed body?

Disgusted women on testosterone are advised to have a hysterectomy after five years because of risk of vaginal atrophy. Buck Angel has talked very publicly about being hospitalised due to not receiving that memo.

@CreepingDeath

This is very depressing, and not a good sign for all the young people who need support and therapy, not a load of hormones. What kind of person celebrates children not going through puberty? Bizzare.

CatherinaJTV
yes! What a relief! Now can we improve services and reduce wait times?!

Can somebody please explain to me why grown men are perfectly able to keep their dicks intact and we are supposed to view them as women, just because they say so - but young people (girls mostly) are being rushed into hormones and surgery as fast as possible because it's apparently the only way to resolve their distress.

can someone explain to me where anyone said anything about "rushing"? I want GD young people to be able to access care within less than several years. That's not prejudging which way they'll go, but at least their needs won't be neglected and they'd have experts guiding them.

Non Binary are the true trans people that are pushing gender norms

How? The rest of the world still views them as male NBs or female NBs. Because sex.

It took me about 10 years to go from " I'm a boy called David " to " the world is sexist , I am just as good as any ma even though I am female "

So I suggest that treatment should be delayed for at least 10 years , not sped up

@RoyalCorgi

To quote from a Twitter account:

"The Court of Appeal have overturned the Keira Bell ruling, effectively giving the green light for children to 'decide' to choose a medical pathway that will eventually sterilise them."

I feel sickened by the posters celebrating this judgement. It's like celebrating the right of parents to perform female genital mutilation, or the right of adults to have sexual relations with children.

How can anyone celebrate giving children harmful medication that will permanently damage their bones? That will mean they never go through puberty? That will lead to perfectly healthy young women taking testosterone and having double mastectomies?

I cannot conceive how people can be so lacking in any kind of moral compass that you celebrate this. It's sickening.

This. What a depressing day.

Keira, I salute your bravery

The real solution is clinical guidance that protects children. I hope the Cass review will produce this.
cass.independent-review.uk/

@RoyalCorgi

To quote from a Twitter account:

"The Court of Appeal have overturned the Keira Bell ruling, effectively giving the green light for children to 'decide' to choose a medical pathway that will eventually sterilise them."

I feel sickened by the posters celebrating this judgement. It's like celebrating the right of parents to perform female genital mutilation, or the right of adults to have sexual relations with children.

How can anyone celebrate giving children harmful medication that will permanently damage their bones? That will mean they never go through puberty? That will lead to perfectly healthy young women taking testosterone and having double mastectomies?

I cannot conceive how people can be so lacking in any kind of moral compass that you celebrate this. It's sickening.

I feel sickened by the posters celebrating this judgement. It's like celebrating the right of parents to perform female genital mutilation, or the right of adults to have sexual relations with children.

You think a child being legally allowed to make medical decisions about their own body if deemed competent to do so (which is what this ruling means) is the same as someone being a paedophile?

What a fucking odd assertion.

If I were a paediatric endocrinologist I might be considering whether it really was worth the financial and reputational risk. Doesn't look like GIDS are going to be slow in passing the legal buck when it lands.

Are you deliberately misreading or are you leaving comprehension skills very poor?

celebrating is the key word

@DisgustedofManchester

Unfortunately this is too late to reverse the attacks in Gillick competence for other services. Its a job well done by the Christian right who always had abortion and birth control in their sights

The "Christian right" isn't really a thing in the UK. Keep up.

@ditalini

If I were a paediatric endocrinologist I might be considering whether it really was worth the financial and reputational risk. Doesn't look like GIDS are going to be slow in passing the legal buck when it lands.

sounds* like an anti-abortionist threatening doctors performing this integral part of health care.

• to me.

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

i can't believe the tavistock appealed it

they just can't rest until they can experiment on children carte blanche, can they?

Dreadful, dreadful people, astoundingly unethical. Talk about 'our lives in their hands', they're a disgrace.

If the ruling said up to doctors then that isn't Tavistock who are psychologists. It means the endocrinologists are putting their necks on the line. And what is more, on the line for a treatment that a lower court declared was wrong and the higher court did not disagree.

You think a child being legally allowed to make medical decisions about their own body if deemed competent to do so

You'd be happy for a child to take adult doses of prescription medication or over the counter medication then, after all if they are deemed medically competent of the risks associated with that why worry if they take a fatal amount.

sounds like an anti-abortionist threatening doctors performing this integral part of health care.*

to me.

Who did you think was doing the 'threatening' in ditalini's post? And what threat did you think it meant?
To me it means the patients later bringing legal action. Are you asserting that this is something that frequently happens - anti-abortionists have abortions then bring legal cases against the provider?

What a weird parallel to draw?

when their demands for things to return to how they were end up being ignored, they'll realise that this wasn't about what a court decided but was about professionals being reminded of their responsibilities, in the context of growing public awareness, and exposure to sunlight. This genie won't be fitting back neatly into the bottle.

That. ^^

The case has in many ways done exactly what it needed to regardless of the official outcome.

It really seems an own goal when the TRAs shout all over social media for women to suck their dicks. Then they have the audacity to call us literally violent 🙄

I can to an extent understand the concerns about children accessing drug-based treatment and I would hope this ruling will make doctors involved in trans children's care be very thorough when assessing competence and planning treatment paths.

Pity then that this courtcase and the safeguarding one shows that this thorough assessment wasn't happening. At all.

I have followed this closely for a few years now and am devastated for Keira by this result. However, I think it is very naive for our opponents to celebrate yet.....

Do you really think things are going to go back to the way they were?

The Appleby case showed huge failings within the Tavistock, and the James Essen case will shine a brighter spotlight on some of these practises.

Imagine being a HCP in this field now, wouldn't you be extra cautious, there is no way you could give out this treatment with the same impunity as before. Surely if anything this has opened a previously viciously guarded door to research and debate.

There is a lump in my throat reading some of the crowing on twitter but when the hangovers are gone there will be one hell of a mess to clear up. Heads are going to roll. People will be hekd accountable for the damage that's been done.

I'm disgusted at the number of children who will suffer from this experimentation. The lobotomy of our time. To those children I say how sorry I am that we couldn't protect you.