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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Facebook Knows Instagram Is Toxic for Teen Girls, Company Documents Show

11 replies

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 16/09/2021 09:04

Its own in-depth research shows a significant teen mental-health issue that Facebook plays down in public…“The features that Instagram identifies as most harmful to teens appear to be at the platform’s core.”

www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-knows-instagram-is-toxic-for-teen-girls-company-documents-show-11631620739?mod=hp_lead_pos7

They know but it's not in the interests of their business model to care.

Internal Facebook memos acknowledge what the site does:

“Misinformation, toxicity, and violent content are inordinately prevalent among reshares.”

www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-algorithm-change-zuckerberg-11631654215?mod=hp_lead_pos7

Along with the other well known issues, what would prompt us to take a stand, however that would look, or at least discuss this in the public space?

If Twitter and Facebook were generating visible harm in the streets, creating physical harm that turns up in A&E (like alcohol or other substances) there are at least public health campaigns. Because it's social media and used in a particular way, is there a general sense that nothing at all can be done?

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ArabellaScott · 16/09/2021 10:02

This is pretty shocking, OP.

Article on BBC (for CBBC, sure there was one for adults, but I can't findi t!)

www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/58580988

The problem that also needs looked into is that if young people DONT use these networks they genuinely risk becoming isolated from peers. Agree that we have to start taking control of social media, internet usage and screens.

Jaysmith71 · 16/09/2021 10:02

Doesn't this remind you of Big Tobacco suppressing what it knew, and Big Oil followiing the same playbook. Big Data is just the latest of these malign forces.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 16/09/2021 11:43

@Jaysmith71

Doesn't this remind you of Big Tobacco suppressing what it knew, and Big Oil followiing the same playbook. Big Data is just the latest of these malign forces.
I wonder if the difference is that Big Data is not even having to put out disinformation - there seems to be relatively little appetite for discussing these wider impacts on particular groups such as girls or children more widely.
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EmbarrassingAdmissions · 18/09/2021 12:55

Guardian on the same topic:

Here’s how Facebook’s internal documents and presentations put it: “We [Instagram] make body image issues worse for one in three teen girls,” and “Teens blame Instagram for increases in the rate of anxiety and depression. This reaction was unprompted and consistent across all groups.” Internal studies showed that, among teens who reported suicidal thoughts, 13% of British users and 6% of American users traced the desire to kill themselves to Instagram.

So Facebook’s leaders knew their service was harming people yet refused to publicly acknowledge it or do much about it. Clearly, the health of teenagers does not concern those who run that company. In March, Zuckerberg told a congressional hearing: “The research that we’ve seen is that using social apps to connect with other people can have positive mental-health benefits.” He offered no such research. And he presumably knew that the truth was just the opposite.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/18/facebook-instagram-zuckerberg-teenagers

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ArabellaScott · 18/09/2021 16:38

This is a huge problem. What are we going to do about it?

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 18/09/2021 17:08

Cory Doctorow and various social media commentators have some thoughts about monopolism and breaking aspects of the thrall of various social media platforms.

All of these thoughts are very considered and appropriately legalistic while pragmatic about what can be achieved and in lengthy timescales.

I'm caught in the horror of seeing what is happening to the mental health of children and our inappropriate and sluggish responses to it as a range of societies. It isn't feasible to prevent children's access to social media platforms. I can't think that life would be tolerable for children in the US or UK if any parents did try to enforce this.

It's relatively easy for me to handwring and wish we could have a safer social media environment that nurtured our resilience and developed our humanity and positive social capital. For all of its advantages, the downsides of social media are disproportionately falling upon some vulnerable groups for whom the harm may be sustained.

Social media moguls don't recognise that they are accountable. We're not holding them accountable. In the same way that various large-scale industries can point to the number of people who don't get harmed by using their products as a legal reason for not paying for the costs of those who are directly or indirectly hurt by the products we don't seem to have evolved a way to curb the harms and excesses of big business.

I'm trying not to make this an instance of learned helplessness and I am stymied as to a way to resolve this. One of many reasons that there need to be public conversations about this.

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 18/09/2021 17:24

@EmbarrassingAdmissions

Cory Doctorow and various social media commentators have some thoughts about monopolism and breaking aspects of the thrall of various social media platforms.

All of these thoughts are very considered and appropriately legalistic while pragmatic about what can be achieved and in lengthy timescales.

I'm caught in the horror of seeing what is happening to the mental health of children and our inappropriate and sluggish responses to it as a range of societies. It isn't feasible to prevent children's access to social media platforms. I can't think that life would be tolerable for children in the US or UK if any parents did try to enforce this.

It's relatively easy for me to handwring and wish we could have a safer social media environment that nurtured our resilience and developed our humanity and positive social capital. For all of its advantages, the downsides of social media are disproportionately falling upon some vulnerable groups for whom the harm may be sustained.

Social media moguls don't recognise that they are accountable. We're not holding them accountable. In the same way that various large-scale industries can point to the number of people who don't get harmed by using their products as a legal reason for not paying for the costs of those who are directly or indirectly hurt by the products we don't seem to have evolved a way to curb the harms and excesses of big business.

I'm trying not to make this an instance of learned helplessness and I am stymied as to a way to resolve this. One of many reasons that there need to be public conversations about this.

Such a good post it bears repeating. We appear to have handed over the nurturing of our children's minds to some of the very corporations / individuals who should be kept away from them.
ArabellaScott · 18/09/2021 17:28

Yes, absolutely, Embarrassing. And there are lots of factors to consider.

Kids learn from modelling, and as adults we are largely on screens/social media all the bloody time. Work and leisure. Lockdown has MASSIVELY increased this for everyone.

There's also considerations of internet freedoms, though, civil liberties etc.

And I agree that t's not feasible to have children who aren't online in at least some capacity. Homework is online, for one thing. As is much of their social life.

We def need a big conversation about it, nationally. Govt enquiry? Research? Working groups?

FlyingOink · 18/09/2021 17:28

So, what is the legal difference between “publishers” and “distributors”?

One is always a “publisher” of their own words, the stuff they write and say themselves. That is completely uncontroversial. The controversy and confusion arise around republication liability, the idea that you are legally a “publisher” of all statements of others that you republish even if you accurately quote the original speaker and attribute the statement to them. So, if you accurately and directly quote someone in an article you have written, and the quoted statements defame someone, you can be liable for defamation for republishing those statements. This applies to any content in your publication that you did not write yourself, like letters to the editor, advertisements, outside editorial, wire service stories, etc. Legally, you are responsible for all of these statements as if they were your own creations.

This legal concept of republication liability is an old concept inherited from English common law. But it appears that up until 1824, accurate attribution was a full defense.

A subcategory of these “publishers” are “distributors.” Since at least 1837, republication liability has extended also to mere distributors of speech—the 1837 case Day v. Bream dealt with a courier who had delivered a box of libelous handbills—if it could be proved that they knew or should have known about the illegal or tortious content. This “distributor” liability was widely applied to newsstands, booksellers, and libraries. The American version of this knowledge-based “distributor” liability is commonly associated with the US Supreme Court’s 1959 decision in Smith v. California, which found that a bookseller could not be convicted of peddling obscene material unless it could be proven that the bookseller knew of the obscene contents of the book. Outside of criminal law, US courts imposed liability on distributors who simply should have known that they were distributing actionable content.

So “distributor liability” applied to those like booksellers, newsstands, and couriers who merely served as fairly passive conduits for others’ speech, and “publisher liability” applied to those who engaged with the other person’s speech in some way, whether by editing it, modifying it, affirmatively endorsing it, or including it as part of larger original reporting. For the former, group, the passive distributors, there could be no liability unless they knew, or should have known, of the libelous material. For the latter group, the publishers, they were treated the same as the original speakers they quoted.

Because one was treated a bit better if they were a passive distributor, the law actually disincentivized editing, curation, or reviewing content for any reason.

One of the primary purposes of Section 230 was to remove this disincentive and encourage online intermediaries to actively curate and edit their sites without being so penalized. Former Rep. Chris Cox, one of the co-authors of Section 230, recalls finding it “surpassingly stupid” that before Section 230, courts effectively disincentivized platforms from engaging in any speech moderation. And Congress recognized that even the notice-based liability that attached to distributors created the prospect of the “heckler’s veto,” whereby one who wants the speech censored tells the distributor about it and the distributor removes the speech without devoting any resources to investigating whether the objection had any merit.
link

This article is a free speech website from the US. Basically social media is legally exempted from responsibility wrt what is posted by users. And all the big social media companies are US based.

FlyingOink · 18/09/2021 17:32

If you Google "platform vs publisher" there are tons of articles on it. The idea was that a publisher had to take responsibility but a platform didn't - the difference between Letters to the Editor or owning a wall that had posters stuck on it by others.
I'm oversimplifying, but that was the argument.

And like other American legal decisions (like corporations being legally people as per Citizens United) the rest of the world sees a knock on effect.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 05/10/2021 13:14

Updated with UK coverage:

Haugen was called to testify before the US Senate’s commerce subcommittee on the risks the company’s products pose to children. Lawmakers called the hearing in response to a Wall Street Journal story based on Haugen’s documents that showed Facebook was aware of the damage its Instagram app was causing to teen mental health and wellbeing. One survey in the leaked research estimated that 30% of teenage girls felt Instagram made dissatisfaction with their body worse.

She is expected to compare Facebook to big big tobacco, which resisted telling the public that smoking damaged consumers’ health. “When we realized tobacco companies were hiding the harms it caused, the government took action. When we figured out cars were safer with seatbelts, the government took action,” Haugen wrote. “I implore you to do the same here.”

www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/04/facebook-whistleblower-testify-us-senate

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