Judge is sad paedophile won't be able to keep his job as a midwife

[PurgatoryOfPotholes]

A man was found to have hundreds of child abuse images, along with porn showing strangulation, and images showing sexual abuse of animals. He escaped a custodial sentence after his partner stood by him and wrote a letter to the judge defending him.

So far, not unusual.

But this bit is. Judge's comments:
'This is a real tragedy for so many people,' he said.

'You qualified as a midwife and will never be able to work in this role again.

It is a shame, not just for yourself but for the community as a whole as I understand there is a desperate shortage of midwives.'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9989159/amp/Male-midwife-39-caught-stash-400-indecent-images-children.html

This judge thinks potential patients (women and newborn babies) are losing out on this man's services? The tragedy is that he was not caught sooner, and I feel very sorry for all women treated by him before now. If they had had an informed choice in the matter, they would not have wanted a man who masturbated to the torture of children, doing the new baby checks on their babies.

So the judge would feel absolutely fine of the man had images of male rape - and he was gloving-up do his prostate check?

Or indecent images of children people need to stop using that term it’s horrible.
Look up Lucy faithful foundation or stop it now for more accurate info (it’s not great reading but there are SO many people out there living amongst us who have done or are doing this. Taking their own kids to school having kids friends round etc scares the life out of me!!

Re judges comments I took it to mean that it’s a waste of training and one less midwife, not that he is worthy of any kind of sympathy etc at all. Horrible horrible man, I think they should be locked up and not allowed within miles of children once released

That's not very fair. Many men will choose this work for the right reasons. Can men not feel a straightforward desire to support people, some of whom are female, in difficult circumstances?

I DGAF what reasons a man wants to work with pregnant/birthing women, really. My reasons for wanting a female midwife matter more than his reasons for wanting to be around women.

And NO WOMAN is obliged to acquiesce to a man laying his hands on her out of regard for his feelings.

This is very basic consent.

Resus officer as well in the context of being turned on by strangulation…..🤮

That's not very fair. Many men will choose this work for the right reasons. Can men not feel a straightforward desire to support people, some of whom are female, in difficult circumstances?
Many friends of mine have had male midwives and couldn't speak highly enough of them.

If he’s trained as a midwife surely all the people he will support will be women, at an incredibly vulnerable point in their lives. When there are so many other areas of nursing to choose from, why chose a discipline that you have no personal experience of, which involves intimate contact with women at a time when they are very vulnerable. And why should his desire to do that job trump a woman’s right to privacy and dignity.

As ever, what the (sex offending bastard) penis wants, the penis must have.

And NO WOMAN is obliged to acquiesce to a man laying his hands on her out of regard for his feelings.

This is very basic consent.

That goes without saying (or should). But that isn't the same as implying a man is suspicious for choosing Ob-Gyn as a career choice.

@ArabellaScott

That's not very fair. Many men will choose this work for the right reasons. Can men not feel a straightforward desire to support people, some of whom are female, in difficult circumstances?

I DGAF what reasons a man wants to work with pregnant/birthing women, really. My reasons for wanting a female midwife matter more than his reasons for wanting to be around women.

I didn't say you shouldn't have a female midwife. But I stand by my comment that many men simply want to work in some areas because they want to support people. Just as many women do.

Jellycatspyjamas, I was responding to a post that talked about men working with vulnerable women and/or children, not only about male midwives.

When there are so many other areas of nursing to choose from, why choose a discipline that you have no personal experience of
Some female midwives don't have experience of giving birth either.
And why should his desire to do that job trump a woman’s right to privacy and dignity.
Again, did I say anything about thinking women should be compelled to accept a male midwife?

@HTKB

Resus officer as well in the context of being turned on by strangulation…..🤮

its sick

Doctors can and do sexually assault patients:

www.medpagetoday.com/publichealthpolicy/ethics/77605

IntermittentParps there is barely enough midwifes on the floor as it is - a male shouldn't take a precious spot which could leave a women with out immediate care.

if a woman was in labour and there was only a male midwife available and she didn't want a male to attend in to her - why should she have to either put herself in danger or give in. Labour is ALL about the women - not the males feelings or needs.

You're on a bit of a sticky wicket if you start disbarring one sex from certain jobs though.

Midwifery should be a profession reserved for women.

I am suspicious of men who choose to work with women at a vulnerable time in their lives in a job which puts them in a position of power and gives them intimate access to women’s bodies. Just as I am suspicious of men who would like to work in rape crisis centres. I don’t think that genuinely caring and thoughtful men would put themselves in such a position knowing how uncomfortable it will make some women.

So many women have suffered violence and harassment at the hands of men, no woman should be in the position of being triggered and having to disclose when she is in labour and male attendant walks into the room. To need to ask for a woman is another stress I don’t believe any pregnant or labouring women should have to face, let alone the anxiety some might suffer in the lead up to birth. We should be able to take it for granted that all staff in maternity will be women.

I'm going to make a complaint about the sentence. It may be that it won't be accepted as I can see that only some sex crimes against children are covered.
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Thanks for the info, I will too. I've had a total panic reaction to reading this. A midwife led birth is such an intense, vulnerable time. I needed to connect with my midwives as fellow women. I am so grateful I never had to find the courage to say no to a man during those experiences. I have a friend who credits the point at which she felt unable to say no to the new, male, midwife with the point her labour slowed down and needed much more intervention. She feels guilty for even acknowledging that to herself. Because women have been gaslit into thinking equality means stuff like men becoming midwives.

[quote TheWoleb]@LemonSwan
There is no such thing as child porn. They are child abuse images.[/quote]
Well they aren't mutually exclusive statements.

A child abuse image could be anything that shows a child being abused. Pornography means it's sexual images produced to be used for sexual purposes.

Many people think all pornography is abusive, it's still pornography.

@IntermittentParps

You're on a bit of a sticky wicket if you start disbarring one sex from certain jobs though.

It would be difficult to know where to draw the line. Nursery staff or early years teachers, nurses, gynecologists, GPs, paramedics...

Well they aren't mutually exclusive statements.

A child abuse image could be anything that shows a child being abused. Pornography means it's sexual images produced to be used for sexual purposes.

Many people think all pornography is abusive, it's still pornography.

The term I see most frequently used rather than CP is "images of child sexual abuse" or "images of CSA".

The reaction against calling it 'child porn' is because while the whole pornography industry is rife with abuse, coercion, rape, trafficking etc, it is still theoretically possible that any given piece of adult pornography could be consensual. However that involving children can never be consensual as children can't consent to sex, so it is always an image of a child or children being abused. It's an important distinction to make, IMO.

LobsterNapkin
It would be difficult to know where to draw the line. Nursery staff or early years teachers, nurses, gynecologists, GPs, paramedics...

Yes, exactly. Slippery slope.

It would be difficult to know where to draw the line. Nursery staff or early years teachers, nurses, gynecologists, GPs, paramedics...

The line was already drawn under the concept of Genuine Operational Requirement which allowed recruitment of one or other sex on the basis that their sex mattered. This allowed women’s organisations to appoint women only to posts which support vulnerable and traumatised women. Of course once someone decided that “woman” means anyone in a dress, the GOR became pretty useless but it does indicate that someone somewhere recognised the need to provide single sex services and that a line could easily be drawn to facilitate that.

GOR hasn’t, to my knowledge, stopped men becoming GPs, teachers, early years practitioners - the idea that it can’t be done because “slippery slope” is ridiculous.

I'm very uncomfortable about this focus on whether men go into midwifery because they want to help.

That's a bit of a self-centred thing, isn't it? The focus should not be on satisfying your own desire to help, but on whether your support will be beneficial to the recipient.

Midwifery is a job where you see and touch women's genitals at a very vulnerable, painful point in their lives. An unknown number of labouring women in a maternity unit will have been subjected to sexual abuse from people with male body shapes. Some of them will be there because they were raped as recently as nine months ago, and their baby is the result of rape. And some of them will be trying to manage the emotional effects of sexual violence while not admitting to themselves that it was rape. Which means they are not in a good position to advocate for their own needs at all, and won't be able to just say "I'm a rape survivor and I need a female midwife".

I'd rather like to be a midwife too because I'd enjoy supporting women. But, crucially, I know I have the personality of a sleep-deprived hedgehog, and I doubt many women would feel supported by me!

I'd also like to support women after FGM, because I feel passionately about that. But I will always be an outsider to that issue. My support wouldn't be supportive! So I simply donate to support the women who can perform that role effectively. I rather wonder about people who centre their wish to help over the recipients' welfare. People in need of support don't exist to meet your own vocational needs.

Some female midwives don't have experience of giving birth either.

No they haven’t, but they will almost undoubtedly had experience of feeling vulnerable during an intimate examination, will know what it’s like to be a woman in society with the structural and patriarchal disadvantages that brings, they will have a sense of needing choice and control over their bodies and having that choice and control undermined. Given the statistics around male aggression and violence towards women and the endemic sexualisation of society more generally a female midwife has a much better chance of having experienced lack of control over their own bodies than a man would.

I’m not saying female midwives always get it right, but they’re starting from the common experience of being a woman with all that that entails.

Talking of that, Jellycatspyjamas, one of the roles of midwives in antenatal care, leading up to the highly personal birth part, is building a rapport with pregnant women so that they can signpost women to other services if relevant, like domestic violence support.

It's been claimed before that domestic violence kills more pregnant women each year than any other cause. Nearly 20% of women experience violence during pregnancy, with pregnant adolescents and women with unintended pregnancies at an increased risk.

according to vawnet.org/material/fact-sheet-domestic-violence-and-pregnancy

Will women subjected to domestic violence from a male partner feel less able to disclose violence to a male midwife?

I'm going to make a complaint about the sentence. It may be that it won't be accepted as I can see that only some sex crimes against children are covered.
[email protected]

I'm just copying and pasting this to increase the chance that anyone skimming the thread sees it. The more people that complain about this, the better.

Factors reducing the likelihood of caesarean birth

1.3.1 Inform women that continuous support during labour from women, with or without prior training, reduces the likelihood of caesarean birth. [2004]

Omg that comment made me cross.

Unfortunate for WHO?

no woman would want to be treated by him

It was a stupid comment