Not one mention of women or girls

[PaleBlueMoonlight]

It is about dehumanising menstruators because they are not catered for properly at festivals. They don't seem to have noticed their own dehumanising language.

The erasure of any mention of women and girls and the replacement with the words menstruator and people with periods is the dehumanising language. It is being used to describe women and girls even when they are not menstruating, as women and girls who are not actively menstruating at this moment but have to plan for their periods are affected, girls who are not yet menstruating will be affected in the future and women who used to menstruate have been affected in the past. This means that they are not using these words to describe someone menstruating, but as words to describe our sex class. They are using them with the same meaning as the words women and girl have always meant. Its use in this way is an illustration of why we need words to describe a human sex class, but apparently the words we had are not OK and we have to use bodily functions to describe that sex class instead.

I know we have seen this to many times before, but it is so stark in this piece.

BBC: It's time festivals catered for people's periods

By the way, the title on the clicky link is what you see on the home page.

They'll argue that transmen have periods too and so they're trying to be inclusive. But inclusive by writing 50% of the population out of existence? No. Not having it.

I really wish I hadn't renewed my TV licence the other week. I may actually see if I can cancel it.

It left me wondering how many women menstruating at that festival made use of that service and how many thought they were a bunch of weirdos.

What they wanted wasn't a service for menstruators (FFS), it was toilets that weren't disgusting.

Periods aren't a hygiene or a mental health issue - their actual message seemed to me to be regressive. Even men would like to be able to wash their hands after a shit.

I’m so relieved I’m not the only person offended by this article. I am going to complain to the BBC

People who bleed. I feel some free bleeding protests are in order.

Moonlight, I will also be complaining. I'm not a fucking 'menstruator', how demeaning.

@aliasundercover

I’m beginning to think this might backfire on Stonewall and other anti-woman organisation. If women start groups for ‘menstruators, ex-menstruators, and potential menstruators’, for example, then TRAs would have no excuse to try to join and take over - it would clearly be a group thats not for them. Maybe its time to start using their weapons against them, maybe we can refer to all transwomen as ‘penis-havers’, as this is language that is acceptable to them.

I think you're onto something.

I'm a young woman and this made me so sad. I'm disgusted at the woman saying Menstruators. How has her thinking gotten so warped?
It all felt so lame and boring as well, like if all the TRA stuff wasn't a thing it would have really been an opportunity to let women speak about this issue no holds barred, and have a laugh about it in the process, instead we get this wishy washy crap! Also wasn't the concept of Period Tents originate in third world countries because women were banished from the community, aren't they culturally appropriating women's struggles?!
Last week one of my colleagues actually leaked on a chair at work. (It was fine!) it felt so ironic what with all this going on, literally proof of what happens to us as women. My last period was hellish pain wise too, so insulted by this concept that the menz have them too.

Whilst the comparison with men is worth noting, I think it stands on its own that women and girls need language to describe their sex and that using bodily functions as those words is dehumanising. Even if men were also reduced to bodily functions and individual physical attributes of their sex, it would still stand that words to describe the whole human by reference to their sex would still be needed (as this video shows).

The words women and girls refer to female humans - they describe us as whole beings. Our body parts and their functions are part of a whole, they cannot be sliced up and disconnected from each other or from the person that has them.

As always, worth reflecting:

Why is it more important to conform to the wishes and preferences of people born male, or those who prefer to identify as male,

over the 99% of 'menstruators' who name themselves women and girls and are very happy to do so?

Women, girls AND will cover it thanks. Add whatever is wanted by that 1%, but erasing women and treating the word as a dirty one unless it's being applied to male people?

That's just pure sexism. Not inclusive in any way.

I too agree you might be on to something...

That was to alias....I cannot quote to save my life...!

@AnnaMagnani

It left me wondering how many women menstruating at that festival made use of that service and how many thought they were a bunch of weirdos.

What they wanted wasn't a service for menstruators (FFS), it was toilets that weren't disgusting.

Periods aren't a hygiene or a mental health issue - their actual message seemed to me to be regressive. Even men would like to be able to wash their hands after a shit.

I agree - when they referred to 'risking your safety or mental health'?? Is it really that hard managing a period at a festival?!

The issue is poor toilet facilities in general at festivals!

Oh yes what us menstruators - (autocorrect knows that’s not even a word and wants to call us men’s tractors!) - what we really need is a tent where we can paint faces onto Y fronts and cry onto someone’s shoulder because obviously we’re all overly emotional twats struggling with our pesky hormones. Fucking “menstruators need a clean sink” indeed. Women need a sink. Most men don’t bother to even wash their filthy hands. Anyone who’s having a period is clearly a woman. Any non-binary person who is female can do the mental gymnastics to work out if it refers to them or not - why should the rest of us have to?

I agree - when they referred to 'risking your safety or mental health'?? Is it really that hard managing a period at a festival?! i usually hate the term snowflake but ffs, for those of us who grew up with those mattress-like pads in our teens and no such thing as period pants or bloody moon cups, it’s all just so unnecessary. So you don’t want to take your moon cup for a weekend? Use a fucking tampon like everyone else.

@Artichokeleaves

As always, worth reflecting:

Why is it more important to conform to the wishes and preferences of people born male, or those who prefer to identify as male,

over the 99% of 'menstruators' who name themselves women and girls and are very happy to do so?

Women, girls AND will cover it thanks. Add whatever is wanted by that 1%, but erasing women and treating the word as a dirty one unless it's being applied to male people?

That's just pure sexism. Not inclusive in any way.

Absolutely this. But the BBC doesn’t give a shit about women and girls. As evidenced by the way they protected Jimmy Savile over the years. Tempted to cancel my TV license too tbh. Most of their programmes are shit too.

If women start groups for ‘menstruators, ex-menstruators, and potential menstruators’, for example, then TRAs would have no excuse to try to join and take over - it would clearly be a group thats not for them.

That won't work, I've heard plenty of TRAs argue that TWs have periods, which, like all female only experiences, have now been refined and stretched beyond all recognition so that TW can pretend we have something in common. I've heard TW claiming to be on their periods when what they seem to be describing is diarrhoea. We've all heard about TW doing things like pretending to be pregnant so they can join women only groups, I don't think pretending to have periods will deter them. Whatever it is we have/do they're just going to pretend they have/do it as well in order to barge their way in and the world will sit back and let them because male privaledge is the most pervasive and unstoppable force on the planet.

Is this the new "I don't see race"? Careful, BBC, we can see you.
Being a human female isn't just about menstruation, pregnancy and menopause, nor the actual or perceived potential to do any of those things. Women and girls (protected characteristic of sex) can also be differently affected by other protected characteristics, notably faith, race, disability, age. Sex is a characteristic that has to be visible.

I've also complained to the BBC. Thank you to all the posters on these boards ( and also ironically to the TRA posters) reading your posts and the websites and information you have pointed us lurkers to has been a revelation.
Yep I'm another one radicalised by Mumsnet and I'm off to meet friends for coffee to peak them too. I've donated to legal funds, joined pressure groups and emailed my MP and now I'm complaining to the BBC. Thank you feminism board contributors for helping me see this. As they say once you see it you can't unsee it and you can't leave it others to speak up.

@TheHouseIsOnFire

I agree - when they referred to 'risking your safety or mental health'?? Is it really that hard managing a period at a festival?! i usually hate the term snowflake but ffs, for those of us who grew up with those mattress-like pads in our teens and no such thing as period pants or bloody moon cups, it’s all just so unnecessary. So you don’t want to take your moon cup for a weekend? Use a fucking tampon like everyone else.

It doesn't even make any sense because I use a cup myself and I could easily use it at a festival? Most people can leave them in for several hours between empties so it's not even as hard to use them as it might be to change a pad or tampon (if you wanted to always do it in the loo rather than your tent).

Yeah I'd probably have to get some wipes to wipe it after use for these few days but it's a festival...everything is a bit more inconvenient at a festival. So I don't even get the value of this news piece in the first place.

Although tbh the BBC didn't use 'menstruators' or any such language themselves, that was only used by the people from one specific organisation - one which only exhibits at 'Shambala' festival....I think we probably could have guessed what kind of terminology that could be.

Would people with a Y chromosome be called "ejaculators"? I wonder just what the backlash would be if that was tried as a way to refer to men

This article was shared in a facebook group associated with a festival I sometimes go to. The blurb by the OP referred to 'people who menstruate' and one commenter was taken firmly to task for asking (a la JKR) 'do you mean women?'.

Another commenter posted a couple of times about her concern about this language actually being EXclusive - of those with learning disabilities or not speaking English. Interestingly no-one engaged with that commenter AT ALL while merrily arguing with the commenter who'd initially made the 'do you mean women?' comment.

They were so desperate to use inclusive language that they can't see (or don't care) that they are potentially excluding vulnerable people.

At least no-one was told to die in a fire I suppose.

Cannot believe woman calling themselves 'menstruators'!!! Just stop!!
Why is it that women are having to be inclusive all the flipping time??
I guess it's being kind isn't it??

FreezerBird - I saw that post too earlier - before the poster commented about the problems. Then the post was shut down.
Another place I can't say how I feel now - I wouldn't dare anymore.

Thank you for posting this, I have complained too.

I'm not entirely sure it's the BBC you should be angry with. The BBC reported what the women in the clip said- they didn't put those words into their mouths.

I agree with others that there's an element of snowflakery there. Re menstrual cup- why can't it be emptied and rinsed out with a bottle of water? And/or take a supply of the largest/ thickest pads. If there's really nowhere to get rid of used ones stick them in nappy disposal bags. People take babies to festivals and seem to manage to change nappies.