Trans ally at work

MrsOvertonsWindow · 11/09/2021 22:42

It really depends on your workplace OP and how free people are to speak. Are there bullies who would target you for daring to speak out?

Personally, rather than criticise the tedious centring of the trans ideology in every debate / workplace, I try to ensure that we are being allies to all those in need of support. So asking which lanyards are available for supporting hearing impaired / partially sighted staff/clients? How are we being allies to those with poor mental health or other protected characteristics which (depending on your work place) may have a profound impact on people?
We can be allies to oneofthemostinfluentialwhitemaleledideologies if that's what matters to individuals. But organisations have a responsibility to ensure that they challenge & support all forms of discrimination - not just those with the rainbow stickers & lots of influence and £££.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 11/09/2021 22:44

You’ve put that very clearly and reasonably, OP. I would have a few names andexamples ready in case your colleagues say women have nothing to worry about.
Best of luck, and thanks for speaking out.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 11/09/2021 22:45

Also, what MrsOverton said.

GoWalkabout · 11/09/2021 22:52

I would ask questions instead of making statements - about the company stance towards gender critical beliefs and free speech after the forstater judgement, about how allys can support trans people AND protect women's sex based rights. But know that you are wading into the culture wars and be prepared.

Chickenyhead · 11/09/2021 22:54

@MrsOvertonsWindow

It really depends on your workplace OP and how free people are to speak. Are there bullies who would target you for daring to speak out?

Personally, rather than criticise the tedious centring of the trans ideology in every debate / workplace, I try to ensure that we are being allies to all those in need of support. So asking which lanyards are available for supporting hearing impaired / partially sighted staff/clients? How are we being allies to those with poor mental health or other protected characteristics which (depending on your work place) may have a profound impact on people?
We can be allies to oneofthemostinfluentialwhitemaleledideologies if that's what matters to individuals. But organisations have a responsibility to ensure that they challenge & support all forms of discrimination - not just those with the rainbow stickers & lots of influence and £££.

This.

There is a difference between being an ally to someone who genuinely needs it,

Or

Making a public display of doing something just to look virtuous.

I cannot do the second, it chokes me.

Championing something because XYZ says so, is so fake.

In my job, being the civil service, speaking up would be suicide. Quietly failing to comply on mass is far more likely. It all depends how desperate your organisation is to "appear" to do the right thing. Because once it's about appearances, science leaves the building.

EarthSight · 11/09/2021 22:55

@aliasname

I've followed the trans debate on mumsnet, but feel I still don't know enough to handle an issue at work, so I hope people on here can give advice.

Our company is starting to embrace the 'trans ally' stance; there hasn't been anything official, but it has been suggested for example that we wear rainbow lanyards (of course i have no problem with the L and G part of the rainbow! ) A couple of colleagues have started adding pronouns to their signatures.

I've a feeling there's going to be a strong push in the next month, and I'd like to find a way of putting forward my views. I could just ignore it, and I don't think anyone would be that bothered (yet...) ~ but I want to explain myself a) otherwise people might just think I'm homophobic and b) it would be an opportunity to raise awareness, and for colleagues to actually think about their choices. Ironically we are big on scientific evidence ~ our policies and mission statements are plastered with the phrase 'evidence-based', so it would be good to use that as it may strike a chord.

My draft email to my boss: I've decided not to do xxxx after researching the trans issues & feel there is still a debate to be had over trans rights vs women's rights. I believe we are still waiting for the science to catch up with what's happening, and don't intend to throw women under the bus while we wait for evidence-based research on the subject. Of course I will support the right of anyone to call themselves what they like/dress how they want, however I can't support a charity/pressure group which overlooks the hard-won rights of women, confuses sex & gender or encourages self-identification to the extent of erasing feminist ideology.

Now that I write it down, it feels ridiculously OTT just because I don't want to wear a pride t-shirt! Is it overdramatic? I'm also aware that, y'know we could end up being wrong about everything, so I'm trying to be open minded.

I actually doubt my boss would even care, but it feels like I have to do what's right? Sorry that was so long...

Religion or belief is a protected characteristic. How exactly would wearing rainbow landyards work with staff who were conservatively religious???

It just depends on how vulnerable you think you are in your workplace. Personally, I would simply decline and say as little as possible. Anything you do say will likely be used against you or make them feel like they actually have their foot in the door in arguing you down.

Please don't feel like you have to elaborate on your position just because they're giving you that awkward silence so you fill the gap. It might not be best for you right now, plus you shouldn't have to. If you feel strongly, go ahead and make a stand or make your case, but there are risks. Just depends on what kind of workplace it is and how righteous and boundary-pushing your colleagues are.

'and don't intend to throw women under the bus while we wait for evidence-based research on the subject' -

I know what you mean, but this won't go down well. If it's something to do with Stonewall, I would list all the places that are not longer Stonewall Champions. If you have to, you could show them the Forstater Case, and if anyone was pressing me on it I would expect them to point out, in writing that I will be facing disciplinary if I don't comply with their requests to wear belief/political garb.

Be prepared to live with the discomfort of not going along with the group, and if you feel like your job is really at risk if you do, don't have meetings or 'informal chats' with them without legal representation. Not unions - has to be legal rep.

endofthelinefinally · 11/09/2021 22:57

I think that mentioning being supportive of the people with all the protected characteristics in the equality act is the best strategy. It comes across as being positive in a "lets make sure we are aware of our employees with disabilities, religious/cultural needs etc". I would be wary of saying anything that sounded negative (even if you are correct).

Thelnebriati · 11/09/2021 22:59

I wouldn't send that message, there doesn't seem to be any need to say anything at this point. Nothing that's happened so far has removed any of your sex based rights, so why not wait until you need to speak up - for example if they try to remove the women's toilets?
If that never happens then no harm done.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 11/09/2021 23:11

Both Sex Matters and Gender Critical might have some information/templates that would help you to shape an appropriate letter if you want to send one at some point.

gcritical.org/introduction/

sex-matters.org/

RoastChicory · 11/09/2021 23:17

Depending on your relationship with your boss, I’d mention in person that it makes you uncomfortable. And say that you totally respect any trans colleagues - happy to call them by whatever name/pronoun they want - but as a feminist being asked to show support for gender ideology puts you in an uncomfortable position.

Or if there are anonymous staff surveys, add it there.

At my workplace, senior management have noticed that many colleagues said in the annual colleague survey they felt silenced and under pressure because of trans issues. The staff LGBT+ group is active and vocal but management are slowly realising that they are unrepresentative and extreme.

VladmirsPoutine · 11/09/2021 23:43

I wouldn't send that message at all; there are so many pitfalls in what you've written that you'd basically leave yourself wide open to all manner of reproach. Nobody is going to force you to wear a lanyard anyway. And as a PP suggested earlier don't chuck in various intersections to prove a point; I'm sure they don't require your allyship if their only use to you is to use them as a trump card of sorts.

Original poster

aliasname · 11/09/2021 23:45

Some great responses here, thank you!

No I don't feel that there would be any danger to me in speaking up yet, part of me wants to set out my stall early to preempt this; but as the PP upthread said, maybe better to wait until there's an actual issue?

I like the suggestion about instead of making a statement, I could ask questions about the company's support of free speech etc. Problem is, I'm crap at thinking on my feet ~ hence writing a pre-prepared email.

OP posts:

DdraigGoch · 12/09/2021 02:06

I'd wait until an actual issue comes along and deal with each issue at a time.

Mandatory pronouns - send them a link to the article about the email signature swap
Toilets - reference H&S regs and the need to consider Muslim women
Lanyards - I might not bother fighting this one as it's of little real consequence. I would however point out that it doesn't actually achieve anything useful so the company's efforts and funds might be better used on something which would make a difference.

LobsterNapkin · 12/09/2021 03:28

I would not send that email.

I find the lanyard business quite problematic, though, and maybe worth mentioning in person. It's annoyingly performative, but it can really put people in a difficult position. Only people who are in a real bubble could imagine that it's ok to encourage people to make outward shows about political and social issues at work.

NiceGerbil · 12/09/2021 03:43

I'd totally ignore it for now.

FFSFFSFFS · 12/09/2021 06:29

I would probably ignore now. But if you’re going to then ask questions. I think it would be far more effective to wait for a particular issue to arise - eg an encouragement to put pronoun s in emails. Then you can write a concrete email about how this disadvantages women and is really nothing to do with supporting individuals (who won’t even be i the room most likely when pronouns are used about them!!)

VashtaNerada · 12/09/2021 06:45

It doesn’t sound like they’re asking anything unreasonable to me. Yes, lanyards are cringey and yes there are other groups who deserve allyship as well, but I honestly don’t see the problem with an organisation supporting LGBT rights. People under that umbrella (including trans people) are more likely to experience prejudice at work after all. And I’ve never found it helpful to play one group off against another. Does your organisation also celebrate IWD? If not you could suggest it so that you’re asking for something positive rather than sounding negative and not wanting to support another group.

AnyOldPrion · 12/09/2021 07:51

Reading your proposed e-mail, I feel as if you started to write with the idea of wanting to get everything out there: setting out your stall in an unequivocal way. But I think you need to assume the person reading it has no idea that there is any conflict. Personally I would probably decline without comment in the first instance and would explain very carefully, if asked, that I felt there was a potential conflict between the rights that are currently being asked for and the rights of women.

If asked for examples, I might cite the recent discussion in the Scottish Parliament over whether raped women should be able to ask for a doctor of the same sex or the same gender, and explain that though I respected the rights of a doctor or nurse to transition, that in such very difficult circumstances, a woman should be able to ask for another woman to examine her and be certain that the person who came was genuinely female.

I might also cite the fact that some male sex offenders have been moved into women’s prisons and that though men who transition in prison should be kept safe, that moving them into the women’s estate isn’t the right way to handle it.

But I would only offer those reasons if I had already been challenged AND had already said I felt there was a clash with women’s rights AND had then been asked in what way.

If you really did want to go with an e-mail, I would go very easy and assume you are addressing someone with the purpose of introducing the idea that there is a clash of rights and potentially the lack of a good evidence base for transitioning. You also need to be able to defend your position in a robust, evidence-based way, if challenged. For the latter, child transition is easily the most emotive and contentious, and with the recent court cases (Keira Bell, Sonya Appleby) the most easily challenged. So my version of your e-mail might read something like this:

I've decided not to do xxxx. There has been a great deal of discussion in the media recently regarding the intersection of trans rights and women’s rights. There is also gathering evidence suggesting that there may be problems associated with transition in childhood, related to the poor quality of studies and lack of long-term evidence.

AnyOldPrion · 12/09/2021 08:07

Should have read better before posting as the e-Mail I suggested needs a rounding off clause, perhaps taking in the suggestion by endofthelinefinally and others, of mentioning other groups that need support.

I therefore don’t feel comfortable with supporting this particular cause, but would welcome a more general support program that would encompass all those who need protection, including those with mental health problems, disabilities and religious/cultural needs as well as LGBT rights.

Lowhum · 12/09/2021 08:20

Buy yourself a really fancy lanyard and if they ask you to wear another, say you love wearing your own.

Or you could ask to wear one that promotes a cause dear to you instead as there is little representative for x awareness.

Or you could go neutral and say that you don't wear anything other than company logo to remain approachable and professional to all.

Personally, I wouldn’t send the email.

Jaysmith71 · 12/09/2021 08:25

I'm sure we're all sympathetic to disabilty rights at work and would do anything we could to help a disabled colleague. But I don't see anyone handing out Paralympic coloured lanyards and demanding we sign up to some manner of anti-ableist pledge, etc. And these are people who actually cannot get up the stairs or through some doors.

Ibizan · 12/09/2021 08:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JeffGoldblumsGlasses · 12/09/2021 09:02

This is one of the reason I enjoy being a Christian. I do go to church most Sundays and wear a cross. But....it's a protected characteristic, and I just get to side step it all by saying "Jesus doesn't approve". I can't wear a rainbow lanyard sorry.

But I treat others as I would like to be treated so don't worry I'm not going to stone anyone in the reception area and demand fish in Friday's in the canteen.

Chickenyhead · 12/09/2021 09:08

I would object strongly to forced lanyard wearing.

I cannot stand anything around my neck at all.

Also I disagree with forced teaming. I am part of LGB and I would be embarrassed if everyone was forced to partake becauseof me. I don't feel the need to be the centre of attention for everyone.

The Equality Act is about not discriminating, not about active promotion of some protected characteristics over others.

Some people find all of this positive reinforcement of one protected characteristic, to be quite threatening in some ways.

A woman's rights issue standing equally against a trans rights issue is unlikely to be considered objectively in many cases, due to this bias. Even where there is merit in the woman's case.

EarthSight · 12/09/2021 10:13

@DdraigGoch

I'd wait until an actual issue comes along and deal with each issue at a time.

Mandatory pronouns - send them a link to the article about the email signature swap
Toilets - reference H&S regs and the need to consider Muslim women
Lanyards - I might not bother fighting this one as it's of little real consequence. I would however point out that it doesn't actually achieve anything useful so the company's efforts and funds might be better used on something which would make a difference.

Hopefully she will not need to deal with the first as it's unlikely make pronouns mandatory. It would be a minefield, legally, as surely it forces an ideology that clashes with religious belief for one thing (also protected characteristic). Stonewall themselves say no one should should be forced or pressured to do it. Athough, there's a potential grey area there where someone could be covertly discriminated against if they don't comply.

The main thing she will have to deal with is the silence, the anxiety and wondering what colleagues think of her. She'll need to live with that discomfort and not give in to the temptation to elaborate (as I don't think it will serve you well OP).

If you're approached, take a breath, pause, don't rush to answer just to fill the silence or because they want you to. Try not to get emotional. Your response, if any, should be flat and unremarkable.