Inclusion sessions at work

[Moretodo]

Got some inclusion sessions at work coming up.
Googled the "expert" who is coming in and their credentials and sadly they are stonewall approved and possess string of similarly woke badges.

I don't know if I should go.
Part of me thinks I should so GC women have representation and to ask pertinent questions if there is opportunity.

The other part of me thinks it's going to be the "expert" schooling us on their bogus research etc. and get us all drinking the kool aid.

Putting it out here for some guidance. I know from Maya Forstater that GC views are Upheld in the workplace. Still feel a bit... Well, some colleagues have their pronouns on their titles. Feel like I might get shit.

Just not sure what it will be, what my approach might be.
It's nagging me already.

Please go, knowledge is power.

Obviously I’d you think it’s going to be too stressful then you must put your well being first, but I for one would love to hear what is said.

To quote Maya : be braver today than you were yesterday.

Good luck. Post again if you decide to go and we’ll help you with some questions/prep.

I hope you feel able to go. If one person is clearly not taken in by it and asks sensible questions, it will encourage the others.

Go. Take notes, I’d be really interested in their talking points as I can see this heading my way. Who needs the old boys club, when we’ve got liked minded women on MN. Ask questions too. Don’t go straight for the Haniland question, but ‘what is a woman?’ Is something I’d love to hear answered by these clowns.

But only do so if it’s something you can handle.

Definitely go if you are able. Even if you don't say anything in the room you can raise your concerns to HR, and at the very least you will know precisely what is being said. Good luck.

Go, go!!

Ask the questions, pull them up on any lies. You have the courage

Relevant recent piece from Naomi Cunningham

legalfeminist.org.uk/2021/09/09/dont-be-that-employer/

Definitely go as the PP’s have said above. There was something mentioned about a Diversity and Inclusion focus at my work and I will definitely go.
I am near retirement, (not soon enough tbh ), and have no wish to progress in my career i.e. I don’t really care if they think I’m an old dinosaur. But I think it’s really important to know what is being said and planned.

While it's fair enough that a Stonewall person would focus on inclusion of LGBTQ++++++++, your company should organise sessions on the other protected characteristics. Not very inclusive not to really. And you could agitate for that 'Well, that LGBTQ++++++ was all very interesting. Can you let me know about similar planned sessions about inclusion of religious/disabled etc etc people?' Obviously, that won't be overly helpful while you are sitting there having to endure the genderbread person or whatever.

I heard a Scottish female barrister (not Helena Kennedy) who said she got where she was by never being afraid to ask the 'daft lassie' questions. So ask them, nicely and politely and watch them flounder as they have no real answers.

There is a lot to be said for asking simple questions e.g.

I notice you say that sex is assigned at birth. What do you mean by that?

fwiw - I had a Trans inclusion session at work and it was fine - basically call them as they ask and don’t ask them any personal questions. I’m fine with that. But it is when they start to say that using the words ‘women’ and ‘mother’ are unacceptable that I would push back.

I'm going to go. My boss is GC, but not going.
I am going to take notes and if necessary challenge every point later. I may be back to this thread if I need help with the follow up.

And yes, I will be asking simple questions given the opportunity.

I will also be asking the org for more sessions that represent other diverse groups.

Thanks for your support here.

An estimated 19% of working age adults in the UK have a disability. This sounds like a great chance to ask the Stonewall rep what percentage of the working age population is estimated to be trans, so you can ensure your company is aware of where resources need to be directed.

Definitely go. Sit and listen if that's more comfortable or ask questions if it's not making sense. Same as you would in any training event.

Oh, and do watch out for them misrepresenting the law! If they say that the Equality act says that persons can go into the facilities of their chosen gender, pick them up on that one straight away. It does not. Remind them of the single sex exemptions.

And yes, I will be asking simple questions given the opportunity.

Given that the CPS has, just today, withdrawn from Stonewall after the legality of some of their advice was questioned at Judicial Review, how sensible is adopting this guidance without further discussion and debate?

Part of me thinks I should so GC women have representation and to ask pertinent questions if there is opportunity.

You would be a heroine if you did so, but there are incidences of employees being removed from these sorts of sessions at the behest of presenters, if employees ask too many "aggressive" questions.

So if you do this, play naive, wide-eyed and so on.

There was a session by Stonewall at my place of work, online, but participants were require to alter their Zoom accounts to show their pronouns, so I took that as a sign from the universe that I didn't have to attend.

@KaycePollard

Part of me thinks I should so GC women have representation and to ask pertinent questions if there is opportunity.

You would be a heroine if you did so, but there are incidences of employees being removed from these sorts of sessions at the behest of presenters, if employees ask too many "aggressive" questions.

So if you do this, play naive, wide-eyed and so on.

There was a session by Stonewall at my place of work, online, but participants were require to alter their Zoom accounts to show their pronouns, so I took that as a sign from the universe that I didn't have to attend.

Yep.

There was an event online in Wales where a few women were removed from the chat for asking difficult questions. It was awful seeing them silenced like this by an organisation that says it champions women and girls for fuck's sake!!!

If you go, do so in a detatched manner, almost as if you were watching someone making a sales pitch. Don't ask questions too soon, and don't ask them in the middle of the discussion (where you could be seen as interrupting or disrupting the talk). Wait until the end when you've written the questions down, when they're asking for questions from participants. That way, you can be witness to all the content and be able to say that, yes, I was there, and this person said xyz.

Just practice NOT rolling your eyes, puffing your cheeks and muttering ‘for the love of god’ under your breath...

I don’t know that I could!

You could attend and take notes, you don't have to ask questions if you don't want.

But if something blatant comes up (i.e. them misquoting the Equality Act, which is likely to happen) you could send a follow up email to HR stating the Maya judgement etc. and highlighting that the seminar, while informative was misrepresenting the law.

You could also use it as an opportunity to ask HR when other inclusion sessions will be held regarding the other protected characteristics, and if not why not?

@KittenKong

Just practice NOT rolling your eyes, puffing your cheeks and muttering ‘for the love of god’ under your breath...

I don’t know that I could!

I'd be trying to make you laugh if we were in such a session together. Probably by showing you silly drawing covertly. @KittenKong

I remember getting detention in primary 5 for rolling my eyes at the teacher.

She had told me off for farting loud and long in class (like I had learned at that stage then how to do it at will - my brother taught me later on) and it was on one of those plastic chairs so the acoustics was quite impressive to be honest. It was her fault anyway - she was very religious and told us that we were likely to go to hell, so I was a little unnerved by the whole thing.

I swear to god I didn’t know I was doing it (the eye roll) until she yelled at me... and I automatically did it again... got more detention, and again, more detention... and again until I think she just gave up. The class was in hysterics. I couldn’t help it. That was the day I learned that I would never have a poker face.

Go and secretly record it. Don't ask questions during the talk if you feel you might get shit for it but you can always prepare responses to certain points later after re-listening to the recording.

If the recording is particularly egregious you could potentially leak it.