New York Times Reviews Helen Joyce's Trans

[EmbarrassingAdmissions]

Helen Joyce's announcement:

Happy U.S. publication day to me! And even though no American publisher was brave enough to pick the book up (the U.K. edition is being distributed in the U.S.), I got reviewed in the NYT. So frankly, American publishers’ loss

twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1435208966355685378?s=20

I think Joyce is pleased with the way it was handled recalling her reminder that reviewers need to quibble about something (re: Aaronovitich's review). It's brave of the reviewer to do this at all given the contemporary controversies and the reviewer made a declaration of interest that she knows Joyce and they share some perspectives.

Final paragraph:

In context, though, these are fairly minor shortcomings. “Trans” is a compelling, overdue argument for viewing self-ID more critically. Even those outraged by Joyce’s positions would benefit from understanding them, given that, as she notes, self-ID polls quite poorly when its actual tenets are fully described to Americans and to the British. The present situation, in which liberal institutions not only embrace these ideas unquestioningly but also, increasingly, punish dissidents, is unsustainable. Open conversation about such fraught issues is the only realistic path forward, and Joyce’s book offers a good, impassioned start.

It's free to read but you need to create an account: www.nytimes.com/2021/09/07/books/review/trans-helen-joyce.html

archive version: <a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20210907113407/www.nytimes.com/2021/09/07/books/review/trans-helen-joyce.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20210907113407/www.nytimes.com/2021/09/07/books/review/trans-helen-joyce.html

The reviewer is Jesse Singal so the moderate tone isn't a surprise. It is a surprise though that they chose him to do the review. I wonder what the backlash will be like?

The reviewer is Jesse Singal so the moderate tone isn't a surprise

Lol. Makes sense - get someone pre-cancelled to do it.

Still might not prevent the ceremonial burning of the editor, managing director and all close family members though.

Apologies for my incompetence in typing 'she' - I do know who Singal is, I had a brain fade in archiving the piece and juggling the link.

That would seem to be very good news.
I wonder how US sales will go.

I am genuinely amazed that the
New York Times allowed this.

Do you think it’s going to lead to a grovelling apology, diversity trainings, staff signing letters, free counselling for every NY Times staffer who was traumatised by this heinous example of literal violence, struggle sessions, etc.?

I think that at this stage anyone working in the NY Times must have known what’s in that can of worms. They made a deliberate decision to open it anyway. So whoever made this decision probably has some backing from higher ups. I think this is a VERY good sign.

As a PP says, Jesse Singal is already cancelled which might make a difference.

His Twitter @'s seem OK (hard to disentangle something specific because he's also got other interesting discussions and, afaict, he hasn't posted a link to the review himself):

twitter.com/search?q=%40jessesingal&src=typed_query&f=live

Yes but it’s not just about Singal. Remember the staff tantrum at the Guardian about Suzahne Moore?

And the similar but less effective staff tantrum at the American publisher of Jordan Peterson’s book?

And the NY Times staff have had multiple woke hissyfits, although I can’t remember the details.

Publishing a review of this book seems highly likely to provoke something similar. Jesse Singal writing the review only makes the violence more literal. Have the NY Times decided to actually have this fight?

His Twitter @'s seem OK (hard to disentangle something specific because he's also got other interesting discussions and, afaict, he hasn't posted a link to the review himself):
twitter.com/jessesingal/status/1435235686341357577

He has posted it, not much discussion, mostly a few people being amazed and a TRA who posted a closeup of a turd. It will be interesting to see if the TRAs eventually cop on en masse and throw a fit. Unless they have realised that it always backfires?

@allmywhat

His Twitter @'s seem OK (hard to disentangle something specific because he's also got other interesting discussions and, afaict, he hasn't posted a link to the review himself): twitter.com/jessesingal/status/1435235686341357577

He has posted it, not much discussion, mostly a few people being amazed and a TRA who posted a closeup of a turd. It will be interesting to see if the TRAs eventually cop on en masse and throw a fit. Unless they have realised that it always backfires?

That happened after I'd posted so it will be interesting to watch what happens in the responses to his own post.

twitter.com/jessesingal/status/1435235686341357577?s=20

From the point of view of sales I really hope they do throw a hissy fit. A demo outside the NYT offices for instance would make copies fly off the shelves.

The criticisms under Jesse's Twitter are telling - there's absolutely no room in their tiny minds for any sort intelligent debate. Things they don't like should not be allowed to exist, should not be written about, should not be spoken of. It's pure censorship.

Obviously we all know that, but it's plain as day here.

Oh, there’s some good stuff there already.

Jesse I'm a deeply unintelligent individual and even I can tell Joyce is a milk brained simpleton unable of even basic reasoning.

A man who’s unable of even basic grammar is saying this of a woman with a PhD in Maths. Damn, I will have to resist the temptation to watch the TRA reactions unfold.

"I'm a deeply unintelligent individual" well quite. He could have just stopped there.

Not sure it's worth a separate thread, but worth posting here.

Quillette has published an excerpt from Trans today:

The Truth About Autogynephilia

Surprised Tom Spence at Regnery didn't pick it up.

The American Booksellers Association ran an 'alternate' advertising drive to publicise Shriers Material Girls and it propelled the book into the bestseller lists, much to Spence's satisfaction.

@EmbarrassingAdmissions

Apologies for my incompetence in typing 'she' - I do know who Singal is, I had a brain fade in archiving the piece and juggling the link.

Naughty you getting your pronouns wrong. How criminal of you. If I were on twatter I might say I'd want to murder you !

The Times of London's biggest readership is women and therefore the Times quickly got the message in its comments that the majority of Times readers were not in favour of single sex spaces (to those with a penis) nor in favour of medicalising young people. Although the Times will always try and balance the argument by giving space to the other side, they are clearly in favour of science. I wonder if this has filtered through to the Times of NY and if the book review is a way of judging the temperature in the US. I live in hope

‘The Times of London's biggest readership is women ‘

How interesting, I wonder how long that has been the case.

What a normal reaction to a book review

www.gawker.com/media/bigot-reviews-bigot-for-nyt-book-review

Hope Helen sues the pants off them in the UK for libel

Don't know - it gets more publicity, like Glenn Greenwald tweeting about it.

twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1435292070982324230

Until this shitty website was revived, there were no liberal outlets calling everyone who disagreed with them "bigots," so thankfully, it's now back so this crucial service is finally being performed.

Can't believe they found someone brave enough to call @jessesingal a "bigot."

That gawker typist apparently can't spell 'vaccine'.

@miri1985

What a normal reaction to a book review

www.gawker.com/media/bigot-reviews-bigot-for-nyt-book-review

Hope Helen sues the pants off them in the UK for libel

Facile doesn't begin to cover it, sadly. And as for calling Joyce's work, thin on citations - I'm disappointed time and again about the lack of intellectual rigour of main protagonists or self-identified allies of this ideology.

Well, the picture of a toilet at the top of the page seems apt for that pile of shite from Gawker...

crikey the writer of that gawker piece is furious

too furious to make much sense sadly

how very dare people have alternate opinions eh?

@miri1985

What a normal reaction to a book review

www.gawker.com/media/bigot-reviews-bigot-for-nyt-book-review

Hope Helen sues the pants off them in the UK for libel

That reaction is just...bizarre.