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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Fantastic piece on the used-to-be-a-newspaper The Guardian

16 replies

ChristinaXYZ · 06/09/2021 09:34

How the Guardian has messed up over the Spa Incident. Found a hole to sit in and kept digging.

My favourite line:

"Self-id is not only for sincere, honest people, it is for liars too."

voidifremoved.substack.com/p/the-guardians-ideological-dead-end

OP posts:
MrsOvertonsWindow · 06/09/2021 10:22

Powerful and to the point!
The Guardian's an embarrassment.

NecessaryScene · 06/09/2021 10:28

Another good one, but paywalled:

NecessaryScene · 06/09/2021 10:32

Dagnabbit.

jessesingal.substack.com/p/some-mainstream-outlets-cant-even

Couple of excerpts:

But I promise you that everyone working on this story at a mainstream outlet understood that if they came to the ‘wrong’ conclusion, it would cause them a lot of drama — at best, some visceral unpleasantness and accusations of transphobia on Twitter.

So they decided not to do their jobs. They didn’t do the normal stuff you would do to try to find out if an alleged illegal act had been committed by, say, a conservative. And this isn’t top-flight journalism or anything. I mean, good for Ngo for getting the story, but finding out someone has been charged with a crime is not a particularly noteworthy achievement for anyone who has experience reporting on criminal justice.

Now, though, Andy Ngo gets to present himself as the one journalist willing to handle this story professionally — and rightfully so. And all the other outlets involved should be feeling pretty humiliated. What do you think this sort of thing does to trust in mainstream outlets in the long run?

Anyway, we are reaching the point where the total failure of the press due to ideological considerations is becoming the story.

MandyMotherOfBrian · 06/09/2021 10:38

I have always read a range of newspapers. The Times, The Guardian, a lot of local print news etc. I think it helps to get a more rounded and balanced view on a range of issues. I never thought I’d see the day where I’d feel the need to hide my copy of the Guardian inside a Daily Mail though……..

OhHolyJesus · 06/09/2021 12:07

@MandyMotherOfBrian

I have always read a range of newspapers. The Times, The Guardian, a lot of local print news etc. I think it helps to get a more rounded and balanced view on a range of issues. I never thought I’d see the day where I’d feel the need to hide my copy of the Guardian inside a Daily Mail though……..
😆😆😆

I have always read a wide range of newspapers too but I did used to so love the Guardian. With them and the BBC repeatedly failing to do even basic journalism, even if you ignore the sustained refusal to cover anything remotely realistic re to gender ideology, it's hard to see why we even bother with what is now 'left wing'.

Was it Bindel who said something like, the question isn't why are only 'right wing' media are covering these stories, the question is why the left aren't. Something like that. Where are they?...someone rescue them from being buried underneath a mountain of rainbow lanyards and trans flags, editorials guideline revisions and equality, diversity and inclusion policy handbooks from HR. There has got to be some integrity still in there somewhere.

Mulletsaremisunderstood · 06/09/2021 12:51

I'm another one who used to love the Guardian but can't bear to read it anymore. There are still some good writers (Hadley Freeman, Marina Hyde) but it's overwhelmingly a propaganda rag now. Bari Weiss spoke recently on Triggernometry about where the media has gone wrong (she used to work for the NY Times but left because of the same woke nonsense).

The old business model is failing, and the new business model is subscribers. And for the Guardian (at least the US version), their readership are mostly self declared lefty rainbow followers. So the Guardian feeds them a diet of what they want because they need the revenue.

What I find interesting/ concerning is that there are many younger people wanting to go into journalism, not to get to the truth of stories and hold governments accountable, but seemingly because they see it as a way to have a platform and get followers and spout their view of the world. Instead of being a messenger for the news, they seem to want to be thought leaders and other such egotistical nonsense. An extension of the social media me me me.

I guess they see likes of LOJ and others who just spout their opinion and have made a lucrative career out of pontificating and annoying people. What you say isn't that important anymore (whether it is truthful certainly isn't important), so long as people are willing to listen. And it doesn't really matter whether you tell the truth or not, so long as you are on the 'right' side, and yo hate on people on the 'wrong' side. Very tribal.

So sadly, I don't think this kind of 'journalism' is going to go away anytime soon.

NecessaryScene · 06/09/2021 14:17

More on the same theme from Jo Bartosch:

Wheesht Spa

News coverage in the US is seemingly terminally polarised, but what happened next dug a grave for the integrity of the Guardian, and then pissed in it for good measure.

RoyalCorgi · 06/09/2021 14:29

Love Jo Bartosch's piece. Funny yet devastating.

LobsterNapkin · 06/09/2021 14:41

It's actually shocking what's happened to journalism.

I also used to read the Guardian daily, now rarely. Similarly the CBC - I grew up listening to it on the radio every day, and continued to do so as an adult - now I can't stand more than about 10 minutes because of the relentless focus on identity politics. Even when I think what they are talking about is important the way they approach it tends to be maddening.

There are several areas they do this in - women's issues, and they also increasingly have failed in basic journalism on indigenous issues. They seem terrified about asking basic questions in case they get the wrong answer.

AMCoffeePMWine · 07/09/2021 01:44

Has anyone seen a follow up comment from OJ, since the male spa user, a registered sex-offender, was charged? Or follow up from others who commented that TWAW, and they are free to use the women’s facilities?

WombOfOnesOwn · 07/09/2021 02:21

Earlier this week in the US, a story (about a covid related issue) was repeated broadly after a Rolling Stone reporter got a "scoop" that turned out to be completely false, by a person who was lying about credentials and incidents in a hospital.

By the time the hospital had written an official statement, dozens of news sources had already repeated the "fake news" and none of them, NOT ONE, had bothered to phone up the hospital system and ask some basic questions! If they had, they'd have found out it was a hoax.

In this case, we see reality treated as a hoax, and women told they're imagining things or even creating some kind of false flag to advance a radical cause, and instead it turns out to be the most common, pathetic kind of serial flasher doing something flashers have done since forever.

In both these situations, real journalism, the kind that comes from actually cross-checking your facts from multiple sources to see whether they're genuine, would have fixed the story right up and made sure no embarrassing retractions needed to be printed. As it is, though, most people will remember the original story and few people remember a retraction.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 07/09/2021 09:17

Great articles by Dave Hewitt and Jo Bartosch. Has The Guardian published any letters responding to its abysmal coverage of this incident? I assume they've received quite a number.

ChristinaXYZ · 07/09/2021 10:43

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

Great articles by Dave Hewitt and Jo Bartosch. Has The Guardian published any letters responding to its abysmal coverage of this incident? I assume they've received quite a number.
Ha! I would bet not.
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NecessaryScene · 08/09/2021 10:24

More coverage of the Guardian, from Spiked

The Wi Spa scandal is worse than we thought

What kind of person would cast aspersions on a woman of colour in order to defend a man who had allegedly exposed his genitals to women? Surely you would need to trawl the darker, weirder regions of the internet to find such an individual, to discover people so bereft of morality that they are willing to question the reputation of a black woman in order to shield an alleged flasher from critique? Actually, no. You only need to look to the Guardian, that self-styled conscience of decent liberals, that bastion of woke rectitude. For it was there, in the pages of this chattering-class bible, that in a clash between a woman of colour who had been flashed at and the man who allegedly flashed at her, it was the former who was demonised and the latter who was treated with sympathy.

NecessaryScene · 09/09/2021 18:27

And more from Jo Bartosch:

How the Guardian became the Pravda of the trans movement

groundcontroltomontydon · 09/09/2021 19:10

I'm really sad about the Guardian's decline. It was my newspaper for years. Now it's just the print version of shouting at pigeons.

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