Interview with a cult escapee who says that identity politics reminds her of being in a cult

[everythingcrossed]

Well, this woman would know. It's Katy Morgan-Davies who, you may remember, was born and brought up in a cult in Brixton ruled over by her father. It's a horrendous story - she almost never left the house, never went to school, never saw or mixed with other children, never had any sort of medical treatment and finally escaped when she was 30.

This paragraph really stood out:

If there is one thing that set Morgan-Davies free, it is her questioning mind. “I find it very oppressive to believe in something without proof just because everyone else is doing it,” she says. “I have always needed to think for myself.”

That is why, she tells me, she is concerned that the world is starting to resemble the one she left behind. “I see a lot of cult behaviour in mass movements and identity politics,” she says. “People are being excommunicated if they don’t follow a certain way of thinking. Sometimes I feel like the cult is following me around.”

She seems to be doing an astonishing job of adapting to life away from the cult, thankfully - if you want to read the full interview, it's in the Times, here's a share token link

God what a traumatic upbringing. I hope she gets loads of travel in now. It would be interesting to get the views of other cult escapees on ID politics.

Gosh what a brave woman, she must have gone through hell. And yes, interesting that she draws parallels between cult behaviour and identity politics. She also criticises the labour party for similar.

I do wonder about the need to believe in something or belong to a group or cause bigger than ourselves. It's very human. I suppose it gives us meaning, purpose, and a sense of moral righteousness, in the way that traditional religions used to.

What a powerful and clear-minded woman.

Poor woman, to escape a cult and then.. well..all this. I struggle to stay sane in the face of genderism, it must be a nightmare for people like this lady.

Extrarordinary woman. I hope she lives a long and happy life now. And she's has understood the problems with social media judgementalism and with identity politics to a T.

Her story shows the power of reading, too. How many of us here escaped into literature, biography, history, encyclopaedias, even backs of cereal boxes etc., when we were kids? She had way, way more to escape from, such cruelty, but I could empathize with that aspect of her young life.

I wonder if her father was influenced by the behaviourist movement (Watson, Bowlby) in the 30-50s to raise children to be self-sufficient and independent by ignoring them when they cried, denying physical affection, etc. (anti-attachment theory)? When raised like this in orphanages the kids all grew up to be psychopaths, basically. I don't know how she managed to avoid this fate.

What an extraordinary life. All those women cruelly manipulated. It's amazing Katy managed to escape it all and turned out sane and happy! I hope she gets to travel all over the world and wish her nothing but the very best.

Her insightful comments on cult like thinking / behaviour and current parallels with various kinds of ideologies is so accurate.

If there is one thing that set Morgan-Davies free, it is her questioning mind. “I find it very oppressive to believe in something without proof just because everyone else is doing it,” she says. “I have always needed to think for myself.”

This is so me, and a big part of why I ended up leaving the Jehovah's Witnesses. And why I struggle so much with all the other fashionable ideologies of today. I also grew up in an Islamic country where lots of things were banned or censored, especially certain types of books. It was so hard to access so much information growing up. And yes, reading was and is still a big part of my life. I would read anything and everything, even the dictionary! Omg I can't believe I used to read the dictionary!
I was a very lonely child, but was fine with my solitary existence for the most part.
I also had a tendency to secretly read things I wasn't meant to. It's a trait I still have. When someone says you shouldn't read this or that (and the Left/progressive side says this a lot), it triggers my curiosity - Why shouldn't I read it? What does it say? And inevitably I end up changing my mind on issues because of it.

Sometimes I feel like the cult is following me around.

Yes! More eloquent and succinct than what I've said about this phenomenon before. It really messes with my head at times. Like at least outside of the Jehovah's Witnesses bubble there was the real world, the sane world. Now, it sometimes feels worse because I can't escape all this bullshit. The identity politics is EVERYWHERE - genderism, CRT, constant moral lectures from institutions, businesses and politicians - TV adverts, work, social media, other people. There is no 'outside' I can escape to. It's everywhere but nobody wants to address it. Apart from a few online spaces like here, there's nowhere else I can express myself freely.

She finds certain conversations around colonial guilt particularly troubling. “My dad used to say that my mum can’t say anything critical about him or my stepmother because she was from a colonialist, imperialist background. Because she is white, she has to apologise and allow them to bully her,” Morgan-Davies says. “I hear the same things on the left nowadays.”

Fuck me, yes! I see this all the time - even here. And it's almost always women - white women - bullied about like this. It's a power trip to make white women grovel and apologise and be bullied about to 'do better'. It's really awful to watch but I see it happening over and over again. I want to tell these white women please have self-respect, don't let them make you grovel like this, it's not right, don't be scared if they call you names like transphobe or racist - it's all a power trip to guilt you into getting what they want.

A guy I follow on Facebook, Izzy Posen who left the Satmar sect of Judaism (ultraorthodox and extremely closed) to pursue higher education also writes that he disagrees with identity politics. He managed to leave the faith because he questioned orthodoxy (what was believed to be truth in that community) and finds it worrying that in the secular world today, some 'truths' can no longer be questioned.

And it's almost always women - white women - bullied about like this. It's a power trip to make white women grovel and apologise and be bullied about to 'do better'. It's really awful to watch but I see it happening over and over again. I want to tell these white women please have self-respect, don't let them make you grovel like this, it's not right, don't be scared if they call you names like transphobe or racist - it's all a power trip to guilt you into getting what they want.

It's an outgrowth of intersectionalist feminism which is being twisted and misused by males - ironically, usually white males. The original idea was that Western feminism was dominated by white middle-class women, and they needed to listen to black women more. These days that's been distorted into white women somehow being evil and not deserving any kind of voice. And it's used by people whose agenda is very often anti-feminist at heart.

The added twist is that these same males don't listen to black women either. They can't use skin colour as a weapon but they ignore them all the same. That's as true for the black women at Wi Spa who reported a white sexual predator as it is for more prominent black feminists like Allison Bailey or Linda Bellos. In essence, these males don't want any woman to have an opinion they don't agree with, and they'll use any line of attack that seems to work.

NotTerfNorCis - yes a lot of these manipulative people, especially white males, know that many white women feel embarrassed or frightened to be called Karen, transphobic, racist etc and that they will be more likely to apologise and capitulate in deference to whoever is positioned higher up the 'oppression hierarchy'.

The biggest impact is on young girls, who are bombarded with messages on social media and within their peer groups that being white, 'cis', heterosexual and so on is to be an awful oppressive and privileged person. It doesn't really matter at this stage if the initial intention was a good one. The pervasive narrative we encounter everywhere is ideal for guilt tripping and manipulation, and women/girls seem prone to being influenced by these kinds of ideologies. They are then inadvertently 'primed' for financial and sexual exploitation by males.

This account is one of many I've come across about how this plays out in life.
twitter.com/lacroicsz/status/1434729331268403200?s=20

Cults are far more common than most people realise. Cultish behaviour is an exaggeration of what are very normal and common human traits.

Groupthink, othering and 'love bombing' are all things that we can see in various groups, far from restricted to religious groups.

Jess Taylor wrote an interesting piece on grooming recently, describing how it is normal behaviour. It was unsetttling to recognise the truth in her article. But ultimately, it's good to learn to recognise and identify that type of behaviour.

I would say red flags for any group are:

Othering/dehumanising anyone, creating 'in' groups and 'out' groups
Forbidding people from discussing or asking questions
discouraging doubt
encouraging isolation

Great points Arabella. These issues do tend to get discussed when there's a really outlandish cult, so people assume it's some kind of extreme aberration, but as you point out, a lot of what's described are a common part of the range of human behaviour and group psychology. It can happen in any kind of group setting and with varying degrees of control and coercion. Not everything starts out sinister and manipulative. It can evolve over time as people are discouraged from voicing dissent or asking questions, a reluctance to leave an environment that was initially accepting and loving, an eagerness to protect the group from criticism which can lead to bullying or ostracism of individuals, and so on.