"Rape doesn’t have to (and it mostly doesn’t) include violence. It’s often a mundane practice."

[MiladyBerserko]

mobile.twitter.com/sally_hines/status/1433833295649849348

Has Sally Hines been on the sauvignon blanc again, or is she really the most anti woman 'gender studies academic' in the history of women bashing?

I read it as a lot of people assume rape.is being dragged off the street after dark when a cursory glance on the relationships forumsbiws that many women are raped within their relationships and brush it off as sex they weren't really up for or try and justify it as not being that bad.

I read it that she was saying altmof people are Co fused akd don't egard this as ease and just call it bad sex instead rather than recognising the reality.

I didn't read it as saying we should brush of rape as a bad sex experience.

non-consensual means it is a violation by definition and therefore violence.

Thank you. Yes.

@Branleuse

I honestly cannot see why people are finding what she said to be offensive, and can only conclude that its to do with sally Hines ( who im not familiar with) as a person

It is, I think, in that if you have come across her before on Twitter you’re not going to trust her to say something reasonable. She likes doing a particular thing where she says something that only makes sense if you buy into a particular theoretical position and then tells people they are thick for not understanding it. (‘Before the Enlightenment the female skeleton didn’t exist’ was a classic in that vein.)

I normally believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt when they say something ambiguous but she actually seems to enjoy winding people up so I wouldn’t be inclined to apply normal principles of good faith to her tweets.

It was Germaine Greer who said it originally. She contrasted ‘violent rape’ with ‘banal’ rape or what she described as lazy and insensitive. She wasn’t excusing it, she said both were bad and punishable.

You have to remember though Germaine Greer is half feminist, half publicity machine!

Men need to realise they are banal rapists. That's the issue, I think. They don't see a rapist when they look in the mirror.

Obviously not all men. Far, far too many men.

I agree she’s worded it badly

When people say rape, they tend to on a whole imagine a woman is grabbed on her way home from work, had a knife pulled on her and dragged in a dark alley where she is then raped

What people forget is, people in relationships can be raped by a not so obvious way. For example, if she’s really not in the mood, and doesn’t want to, but is coerced, or wheedled at until she gives in, this is technically rape.

Yes I think she was trying to focus the discussion on consent, rather than how physically violent. (As well as grab headlines).

If someone is a gender/race/equality studies student/graduate/professor you can be fairly confident they are a gender/race baiting idiot.

By that token, are some murders worse than others? I don't mean mass murders. I suppose you could think about the difference between being struck down or shot unexpectedly and being tortured for hours, but dead is dead. And raped is raped.

If we accept some concept of "rape lite" we've given up the struggle for women's and girls' bodily autonomy, surely?

And what does she mean by "some women rape"? Does she mean transwomen with male genitalia?

@NewlyGranny This woman is claiming bad sex is rape. Do you not think that is trivialising an abhorrent crime?

CBUK2K yes, clearly. Why, don't you?

Not RTFT but will.

I saw that and I think that giving her the benefit of the doubt is automatic but does she warrant it?

She got hammered in the replies. Very very angry people.

Note that post came after her saying some fucking ridiculous things about WiSpa and getting clobbered.

I think it was deliberate. Post something that would get loads of people angry. Then say oh I meant this. Everyone is being mean.

Oh and many posts about her being raped. Which is terrible obv. Cynically I'd say it was to divert attention and also garner sympathy.

Because her WiSpa comments were awful. And that comment about rape is grim.

I only heard of her about 2 days ago so my view is based on what she's written.

Mundane is a terrible word to use.
I mean. Sadly rape is an everyday thing for too many women. Or something
Mundane implies boring. It's a very poor choice. I suspect deliberate.

GG got clobbered for her comments. She's a different ball game though.

On violence.
Loads of laws around the world still have a fighting back requirement.
Yes when it comes to sex offences the violence is often not seen as violence. Because violence is generally seen as the sort of violence men do to men.
A punch in the chest Vs a hand up the skirt or a hard slap or pinch to the arse.
Non contact sex offences are seen as well nothing really bad happened did it.

Conflating bad sex with non consensual sex is just not on.
It plays into rape myths about regretting it.
It's George Galloway saying not (can't remember) polite or something. Not rape
It ignores just everything

It was a shit thing to say and intentional I think to distract from her earlier comments.

Cambridge dictionary

'very ordinary and therefore not interesting:
Mundane matters such as paying bills and shopping for food do not interest her.'

A shit choice of word.

Oh another thing. Having had a quick look.

There's a lot about certain things meaning victims are unable to process their trauma.

With the WiSpa thing. Her view is that women who don't want random dick about the place are traumatised by definition. And their trauma should not be a reason to restrict anything.

Like dick about the place

Just FYI.

She's also pushing women do it to.

Rape laws need changing penis in there is no good at all.

And this sort of thing...

'Sally Hines
@sally_hines
·
4 Sep
The line between consent and non consent is, at times, extremely slippery and rape often occurs in situations that are deemed to be consensual.'

Now she would say if challenged deemed by the courts

But that's not what she says is it ..

Given that GG also got hammered for saying precisely the same thing a couple of years ago she would have expected to get much the same.

Unless she thinks everyone who engaged with GG forgot.

@NiceGerbil

Note that post came after her saying some fucking ridiculous things about WiSpa and getting clobbered.

I think it was deliberate. Post something that would get loads of people angry. Then say oh I meant this. Everyone is being mean.

Oh and many posts about her being raped. Which is terrible obv. Cynically I'd say it was to divert attention and also garner sympathy.

Because her WiSpa comments were awful. And that comment about rape is grim.

She lacks empathy and is very immature and attention seeking. I don’t understand how she’s in the position she’s in, professionally.

I suppose we could be looking at very entrenched, internalised misogyny here. It's one possibility. Or is it more likely that, having been raped - and I'm so sorry a man did that to her, she is minimising like mad to make herself feel better about what was done to her?

I'm imagining an internal monologue of denial going something like: "It wasn't so bad; I survived; he must have misread all my signals; perhaps he meant well; he was just clumsy and stupid; perhaps it was just rubbish sex..."

On and on until she's covered the horror under layers of minimisation and denial. I suspect many women do this - and men too of course - but most just don't have her platform.

Sadly it feeds into all the old rape myths.

Do we have free speech and freedom of thought or dont we

Well quite obviously we do

Which is why she said what she said and people on here are saying what they saying

I think her other tweets clarify the matter, would still have been a discussion on here but it would have been a different one

I am massively cynical about this coming straight after getting totally clobbered about WiSpa.

And mundane is a word that is unsuitable here.

She got clobbered for initial tweet as well and then started backpedaling and talking about own experience.

To conflate bad sex and rape is what MRAs love to do and is a key rape myth.

With those academic credentials then take they know what they wrote don't they.

And mundane is a word that is unsuitable here. That's probably because she didn't understand the original source she took the idea from. Or did and disgreed with it at the time.

But 'mundane' perfectly described the perfunctory, habitual, taken by men as their due, bad sex, rape GG was describing - urging more women to understand it and report it for what it is and for society to agree that a non custodial, old fashioned shaming, with it's own version of tar and feathering, punishment for the men who think so little of women they commit this kind of crime and consider it their due, scratching an itch etc.

The publicity machine GG chose the word well.

This rehash is not so well constructed!

@KimikosNightmare

She's an idiot. It's heartening to see the number of men calling her out on it.

There are a couple of women defending her- including one who commented that Greer has come out with similar points in the past.

you find it "heartening" that a rape survivor gets "called out" by men?

She is right, of course, in that whole thread, and actually, that she gets called out by men is a major QED.