Milli Hill and female physiology

[BoredOfCbeebies]

Please give some support to Milli on Facebook, on her Positive Birth Movement page. She's written a very sensible article about how we should use the word female when describing the physiology of those who give birth, and there's a bit of a pile on about how she's a terf, and turning into Katie Hopkins!
www.facebook.com/positivebirthmovement/

I think what I find scariest is that midwives saying things like males give birth. It is just so fundamentally wrong.

I'm also interested in the question of how many trans men are giving birth - no one seems to be collecting the figures. In the UK there are 650,000 births a year. Trans people, according to Stonewall's figures - constitute one percent of the population. If trans men are giving birth in the same proportion as women, that would be about 6,500 births to trans men each year.

However, that seems highly unlikely, given that there are far more trans women than trans men, and that a lot of trans men can't give birth because of hormone treatment, or don't want to give birth because it would invalidate their sense of themselves as men. I think it must be a very small minority of trans men who want to get pregnant and give birth, because it would surely trigger their dysphoria.

I can’t get over the women who think you don’t have to be female to give birth. That female is a gender and a choice. They have literally no way to describe their physiology other than yes I have a uterus but oh no I’m not female. jfc.

I can't remember where I saw it, and can't reference any stats but a brief mention about "inclusive" health services said something about trans men having a disproportionate need for abortion services.
Can it be that these biology deniers are so deep in their denial they have no understanding about the basics of the sexual act and the need for contraception?

I assume its partly because they don't want to use hormonal contraception, which are generally more reliable than barrier methods.

When did 'female' get redefined to include males? I missed that totally. Found those comments shocking and upsetting. I'm glad I'm through all that and have no more need of those services. I couldn't have coped with all that dehumanising language on top of the general horrendousness of being pregnant. This really needs to be stopped and reversed. Women women women.

Just threw in my two pence and then read a ridiculous comment from some woman saying when talking about women we have to include TW.
Depressing.

The TRA's love the word transphobic.

First chance I've had to check back on facebook, no hate received for stating the truth - I think I've got off lightly. So much bile on there, though. Hundreds of comments from people seemingly happy to let the world know they don't understand biology, the meaning of basic words, where babies come from... They really need Milli's book!

A lot of these people are hard of thinking.

If you look at the kind of milieu in which Milli Hill operates, a lot of those women have bought into a world view in which birth has been dominated by a male-centred, over-medicalised approach, while women can be empowered by giving birth naturally, discovering their own inner strength.

But to adopt that view really means accepting that there are two classes of people, one of which, men, has power over the other, women. Once you start pretending that men can give birth and eradicating the word "woman" from discussions of birth, then their entire world view collapses in a heap.

@FannyCann

I can't remember where I saw it, and can't reference any stats but a brief mention about "inclusive" health services said something about trans men having a disproportionate need for abortion services. Can it be that these biology deniers are so deep in their denial they have no understanding about the basics of the sexual act and the need for contraception?

Interesting. I decided to look this up, because I doubted whether there are any stats on this, and indeed I can't find any. However, I did find this:

www.miplannedparenthood.org/post/trans-men-need-abortions-too

Relevant quote:

"There are tens of thousands of trans people, including myself, who because of steps we have taken to transition don't even know if we are capable of becoming pregnant or not. There are trans men who can't access birth control, or pelvic exams, or abortions because clinics will refuse to treat them. We're less likely to have health insurance, more likely to live in poverty, and there are no federal laws protecting us from discrimination in housing and employment. Thus, we are one of the populations more likely to need an abortion at some point in our lives, because trans people can and do get pregnant."

So you can see that in the US, because trans men don't have the health or legal protections they have in the UK, it's possible that they might be more likely to require an abortion. Personally I think other things might weigh against that, eg a lot of trans men will be in relationships with women, and a lot will be infertile. But I can see where they're coming from in a US context.

What is meant by 'more'... that's quite subjective.

More transmen than transwomen, well, yeah (obviously).
More transmen than abused preteens/teens/women?
More transmen than sex workers?
More transmen than women, doubtful (especially, as you say, considering many are in lesbian relationships/infertile, etc).

Unless they have stats to back up their assertions I fail to see why we should pay them any heed at all. We certainly shouldn't change language - there were just shy of 210K abortions in the UK in the 2019, they were all performed on women and girls, regardless of delusions.

I had to share this absolute gem. At first I was convinced it was a piss take but reading the follow up comments I believe it is true 😂

I messaged Milli Hill including a link to this discussion and she replied saying that it is 'great to see support on Mumsnet'. Randomly Twitter seems much more supportive of her and the concensus is that the Facebook comments are crazy.

The more sensible, intelligent and articulate women speak out, the more panicky the 'other side' get, they know deep down their position makes no sense but they're going to go down shouting. I'm reading Give Birth Like a Feminist just now, brilliant book, wish it had been around when I was pregnant. Bought the period book for DD as well, lovely book, lots of positive messages about girls bodies.

Can you clarify so I can align myself properly

Are you sure that was a human, not a bot?

@RoyalCorgi see, everyone deserves healthcare. And I’d be perfectly happy to sign up to support trans men getting access to suitable healthcare, but why do they have to want to erase me in the process?? (Also major issues with the complete absence of biology understanding). I am pregnant (discovered sex at 12 weeks but I can’t wait to see what she gets assigned at birth!) and I can imagine my fairly blunt obstetricians response if someone told him I’m a pregnant man.

From Royal Corgi's quote: "There are trans men who can't access birth control, or pelvic exams, or abortions because clinics will refuse to treat them."

I call bullshit on this one. In the US where abortion clinics are pretty much outlawed, Planned Parenthood is now treating transwomen and totally captured, it is difficult for all women on low incomes to access reproductive health and abortions.

But also read: "because clinics will refuse to treat them."
So they haven't been to the clinics then.

Like a kid who says, I don't ask the teacher questions because I know they don't like me.

They haven't been to clinics for women as they are in denial that they are women. They cannot ignore pregnancy so then have to take action or highlight even further their womanhood. It's sad, they need therapy early on to know that you cannot think your way out of one sex and into another used to be commonsense.

It feels like mass hysteria when people describe discussion of normal biological processes as "taking a stance" how are you supposed to discuss pregnancy and child birth without mentioning women and mothers?

It beggars belief

I call bullshit on this one. In the US where abortion clinics are pretty much outlawed, Planned Parenthood is now treating transwomen and totally captured, it is difficult for all women on low incomes to access reproductive health and abortions

You're probably right. I was being generous.

Either way, I think it's incredibly unlikely that in the UK trans men are more likely than women to need abortions.

Meanwhile back on Twitter:

twitter.com/trasinscneach/status/1430456525454249986

Uterus transplants, questions about whether ovaries come in the package (BOGOF?), a fantasy uterus-donation service from transmen... it's too much to take.

inews.co.uk/news/long-reads/ian-duncan-deputy-speaker-house-lords-interview-brother-died-ovarian-cancer-1125221

So basically transmen want to be men, except when they want to be women. Even if they are legally male, their bodies aren't. Who knew? Ditto for transwomen, I suppose.

@Aparallaxia watch out, you are going to the dangerous realm of reality. Remember it's not who you are, it's what you believe.

Today I'm a human...tomorrow a unicorn. Pronouns: pouty/fluffy.

From the link on that Twitter thread.

From the dm.

Who don't bother to point out the biological nonsense in what they write.

They say the difference between uterus transplant in women and TW is the not connected to fallopian tubes.

Not that there aren't any. Nor ovaries. Etc etc.

On the thread loads of yay.

A really worrying lack of basic knowledge of human reproduction :/

'Explaining the procedure, Jessica said: 'Once I have the womb in I will start to ovulate and I can get pregnant having sex or having a sperm donor obviously I'd like to get pregnant the natural way, I want to do everything as naturally as possible, but if I try that and it doesn't work I can have a sperm donor, that's an option as well.'

'It is a riskless surgery it really is, a biological woman who doesn't a womb will have the surgery, a transgender woman who has the surgery it's exactly the same, so please don't worry about it. I was going to get it done in Turkey but then I changed my mind because I didn't like the doctors out there.''

The thing about this and also with surrogacy.

Is that it's about what the adults want.

There is no consideration for the baby.

It's the thing as old as always that when it comes to growing babies it's just a bag to grow it in. Get embryo put in bag attach to blood vessels boom job done.

This is where the whole thing collides with oppressive patriarchal religions of certain types as well- certainly branches of Christianity.