Femme - "An LGBTQ+ person doing femininity, ironically if you are actually female"

[CircularReasoning]

An article called Femme fatale I came across that made me think. Though not in the way the author intended.

www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a37258757/femme-fatale/?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB

Apparently the term femme has been appropriated by run of the mill, painfully ordinary hetcisstraightnorms.

The heroine went to a halloween party once dressed in a masculine way and it felt wrong, she had to change. It turns out she needed the ironic femininity to express her true self. You see, she's queer but no one can tell that if she's on her own and that's insufferable because she's not like all the other girls.

.. I once went to a NYE fancy dress party as Eddie the Eagle Edwards (and I like an ironic 50's swing dress and heels as much as the next gal). I felt a bit uncomfortable but I thought it was because of the giant cardboard skis, shell suit and mullet, maybe it was because my embodied femmedentity was hidden and actually I'm secretly, very special.

Oh god. This is all resolving itself into the story about the masochist who loved to take a cold shower every morning ; so he took a hot one.

Hahaha 🤣 the whole of France must be triggering to her. Do these people ever get over themselves enough to perform normal, everyday functions without receiving validation?

I can't see the quoted text (in thread title) in the article?

I wish I could identify as someone who could write b0ll0cks and get paid for it......

I once went to a Stars In Their Eyes party as Demis Roussos. I made a beard by spraying cotton wool black. When I took the beard off, I had dyed my face black! I'm still not confused about being a woman.

I went to the office Christmas party as a Christmas tree when I was young and not good at working through all the possible permutations. I decorated my dark green swing coat with tinsel and baubles and wore a dark brown polo neck and brown wool leggings underneath for the trunk. It was OK for about an hour, then too warm so I had to ditch the coat. I ended up clubbing in a brown polo neck and wool leggings. 🤦‍♀️ I could not remove any more layers. It was the hottest (not the sexy kind) I have ever been on a night out.

For me - being of an age - "femme" meant something along the lines of a lesbian who presented as feminine, and perhaps positioned herself in contrast to "butch". (If I've worded that clumsily, it's because I'm not a lesbian and regard it as none of my business!) That seems to be how this writer is using it. But questioning the fact that it's meaning has recently expanded. I think she pulls short of saying it's been appropriated by non-lesbians, but I think that's kind of where she's heading, if she was bolder.

Interesting. I'm always suspicious of when people seem at once really keen to do a thing, but insistent that they're only doing it ironically.

@BigNothing

I can't see the quoted text (in thread title) in the article?

It's not a quote, it's my summary of her definition of femme in the style of a dictionary definition. I perhaps shouldn't have used quotation marks. Perhaps Mumsnet could oblige and remove the offensive quotation marks from the title for BigNothing.

Got to say, I’ve never heard a cishet woman describe herself as femme. “Queer” cishet but with a case of I’m not like other girls women, however...

I’ve never met a woman who described herself as cishet, much to my relief…

I read the article. The writer’s upset about words that belong to a community being appropriated? How ironic.

I went to a fancy dress party, and won!, as Shrek
The green face paint stained my face and I found myself green skin phobic and felt uncomfortable for a week until it wore off
Am I special?

I can kind of see her point in a way. I’m bi and not lesbian but Femme lesbians often have problems in the LGB community with being accepted, with not being “gay enough”, not being visible to other gay women. I agree that there seems to be a lot of straight women who often want to be involved, or as the author said, on the periphery, in the community but are straight.

On the other hand, I too am sick of the term women being appropriated and so I’m not sure how much sympathy I actually have. Either words have meanings or they don’t and she mentions she has dated trans people in the article so she’s part of the problem.

“I’ve never met a woman who described herself as cishet, much to my relief…”

Neither have I in person tbf It’s very much online speak I think.

I found shirts at H&M emblazoned with the word femme in all caps

Mais ... est-ce que ca femme sais pas que c'est le mot Francais pour 'femme'?

Couldn't get right through this article, sorry. Just started hearing that sort of roaring in my ears.

How would you pronounce 'cishet'? 'Kish-het'? 'Siss-het'? 'Boollsh-het'?

Wasn't offended, op, just wondered if I'd missed something. Wanted to be sure what the message was in context then couldn't find it.

I wonder what she’d make of these: www.adulthumanfemale.store/product-page/femme-definition

@TheMarzipanDildo

“I’ve never met a woman who described herself as cishet, much to my relief…”

Neither have I in person tbf It’s very much online speak I think.

and she mentions she has dated trans people in the article so she’s part of the problem.

And actual men.

I skimmed and I feel for her a bit tbh

What I got was

Back in the day there was butch and femme - lesbian terms.

She went to lesbian and gay bars clubs etc.

In those days well IME they were pretty careful who they let in because of what she says about women always wanting to get into gay clubs.

She always felt unhappy that her look was not one days hinted or said hello I'm a lesbian. I get that too- you're not sort of saying with how you look hello I'm gay so what. Bars etc will be more wary. And maybe women in there. Is she gay or just here for s change and happy to snog a woman type thing.

So I get all that.

Where it goes wonky is

I have never heard a woman who isn't a lesbian use the term femme.

Plenty of non binary and trans people do. Often male. Nicked the term from lesbians.

Also lesbian and general gay spaces opened up to anyone who wants to go.

So her unhappiness is justified.

As a lesbian with a feminine look. In a place for gay men and lesbians. In the past the fact you were there said hello yes I'm a lesbian.

Now? Not so much at all.

Her anger is misdirected though.

It's not general straight women who have done this. It's down to male people. Taking the word femme. And insisting gay places let anyone in.

What a shitshow.

I read the article. The writer’s upset about words that belong to a community being appropriated? How ironic.

How would you pronounce 'cishet'? 'Kish-het'? 'Siss-het'? 'Boollsh-het'?

😂

All the different terms have basically collapsed due to transgenderism.

Femme is surely now part of gender identity so nobody can claim they are being ironic. If you believe in gender identity femmes are naturally feminine.

I can’t see how fixating on any of this stuff as the core of who you are can make anybody very happy.

How very unique and special. I’m certain there is absolutely no one else in the world like her. She must make this clear to us all at all times and we must validate her uniqueness or we will be performing literal violence.

I hope that keeps her happy for a few moments.

@TheMarzipanDildo

Got to say, I’ve never heard a cishet woman describe herself as femme. “Queer” cishet but with a case of I’m not like other girls women, however...

I’d like to add heterosexual trans women to the list of people I’ve seen use femme, actually. Her annoyance is definitely misdirected.