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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

DD 15 now talking of getting hormones and irreversible surgery

24 replies

snugglebean · 30/08/2021 15:09

I don't know where to begin. DD, 15, is about to have a review at CAMHS after being flagged up as potentially suffering from ADHD and Dyslexia. Has been cutting her arm and talked to doctor, who has just written to me, about suicidal ideation. Long story in lead up. I am a single parent with long-term mental health issues who has been hospitalised twice following breakdowns. This has inevitably taken its toll on DD but she refuses to acknowledge this. My fear is that CAMHS will send her down GIDS route. I fully support her being gender non-conforming but will not let her harm her body under my watch. Absolutely desperate, and actively seeking non-affirmative but non-judgemental therapy for her, willing to go private. She has been watching influencers on Youtube. Considering getting rid of internet. Trying to encourage her to do more, see friends, be in the world more and less focused on identity issues. She is gay and I think if she could just learn to be happy in her body she would have a happy life as a lesbian when adult. She claims she's not part of rapid onset group (although, despite being gender non-conforming, no signs of dysphoria as a child) but is truly trans. Anyone with a similar experience?

OP posts:

AfternoonToffee · 30/08/2021 16:55

I don't have any experience I'm afraid but I didn't want your post to go unanswered. In similar posts these are suggested as a good place to start.

4thwavenow.com/

All the best to you and your dd.

OhHolyJesus · 30/08/2021 17:09

Genspect ad Bayswater are also good organisations to try. Head over to the LGBT children board for more advice but I would agree with you about the internet. Get rid of it or place strict parental controls on it and limit the time she spends on it, especially on her own.

Original poster

snugglebean · 30/08/2021 18:22

Thanks for the advice :)

OP posts:

snekkes · 30/08/2021 20:24

Realistically, joining the waiting list for GIDS tomorrow (which isn't going to happen), your kid is unlikely to be seen for 3-4 years. 15 now, that means 18-19 by then, GIDS don't do adults, so would refer on to adult services, which will mean joining another years-long waiting list.

There is basically no chance of your kid having puberty blockers or testosterone without you taking them to private practise, and it sounds like that's not going to happen, so you can probably ease off worrying about that aspect.

Not all trans people 'know' from a very young age, that's a common misconception, so it is possible your kid is trans. Or gender non-conforming. Or nonbinary, etc. It sounds like gender may be one of a number of issues, and as a former self-harmer of many years I would strongly advocate finding a therapist fully and specifically qualified to deal with self-harming teens and support them working through whatever pain is causing that, regardless of the therapist's views on gender.

Totallydefeated · 30/08/2021 20:29

I would strongly advocate finding a therapist fully and specifically qualified to deal with self-harming teens and support them working through whatever pain is causing that, regardless of the therapist's views on gender.

I agree with this. Feeling so depressed you’re suicidal is absolutely NOT the time to make life- changing decisions. She needs intensive therapy with somebody very good and very experienced.

Sorry you’re going through this, Op. I can only imagine.

Original poster

snugglebean · 30/08/2021 20:41

Thanks very much for this excellent and reassuring advice :)

OP posts:

Fitt · 30/08/2021 20:52

I have a child horrifically scarred from a cutting phase that stopped about five years ago. It was very traumatic at the time not least because I couldn't go to a health care provider because I was afraid of their powers to take him away from me.
He survived. It was about releasing the overwhelming feelings brought on by puberty.

We survived. I learned early on it was not a death wish, only an online cutting culture. Only. That's bad enough.

Stay strong.
My kid is very intelligent and insightful but struggled (still does) with dumbed down culture he could not relate to. He has shocking scars.
There's a mental health culture online children get drawn into.

Fitt · 30/08/2021 20:54

I did take him to a nurse that is a friend for bandaging. Someone I could trust not to drag in social services.

People in health care don't understand cutting

snekkes · 30/08/2021 21:02

People in health care don't understand cutting

Not sure if times have changed, or it's a YMMV situation. My family GP was great (and didn't involve social services at any point). My school was worse than useless.

Fitt · 30/08/2021 21:06

What is a YMMV situation?

snekkes · 30/08/2021 21:07

Your Mileage May Vary, apologies

rogdmum · 30/08/2021 21:08

Our GP didn’t seem concerned about it and had no advice, CAMHS twice refused a referral (for self harm and suicide ideation)- all we got was a bit of paper with a handful of websites to look at. Fortunately DD (on her own) found an app that helped her stop by using a sort of diary system, but I know the risk is always there.

I’d ditto the suggestion to join Bayswater. One caveat to snekkes sensible post, if you ask to be put on the GIDS waiting list, yes your DD is highly unlikely to be seen by the Tavi, but her waiting time will be taken into consideration when moved over to the adult GIDS and so she could be seen very quickly there and from speaking to other parents where that has happened, I’d suggest it is something you’d want to avoid (they very quickly move onto a medical path via the adult GIDS).

Fitt · 30/08/2021 21:11

That's a bit naive really, they just need to get hold of an adults card details to buy from gender gp.

Fitt · 30/08/2021 21:19

@snekkes

Your Mileage May Vary, apologies

Still non the wiser. Looked it up and it says experience may vary.

My experience of social services at the time was the social services visitor who told me "you are his mother, you are going to believe him, we won't believe you because of that." So no trust in social services at all when I'm told that a mother will automatically be discounted because they are a mother.

Original poster

snugglebean · 30/08/2021 23:08

You've all been through nightmares too by the sound of it. Thanks for sharing your stories and advice. It's a terrifying situation for all of us. There's an unbelievable amount of disinformation online and it's so helpful to have some pointers to navigate through this.

OP posts:

snekkes · 31/08/2021 22:29

There is disinformation on all sides - and this is where I know I lose most of FWR, but let's not derail; snugglebean is dealing with a lot. Realistically, one possibility is that your kid is trans. It's not the only possibility, and it's not a guarantee. And I 100% stand by my statement that the first thing to address is the self-harm and suicidal ideation.

But please do bear in mind that the gender dysphoria may (or may not) persist even once appropriate care has been sorted out for all of that. And if so, please support your kid. Go with the pronouns, the name change, the appearance. They may experiment with presentation for a time and decide they're not trans. They may also realise they are.

Many, many trans young people lose touch with their parents, because of the parents' refusal to accept their kid for who they are. You've been through a lot, clearly, and you're doing your best, and this is a big, scary situation. Take it one day at a time, one thing at a time, and love your kid for whoever they turn out to be.

OldCrone · 31/08/2021 23:21

Realistically, one possibility is that your kid is trans.

What do you mean by this snekkes?

Do you mean that one possibility is that the OP's child has gender dysphoria, which could be diagnosed by a suitably qualified professional? And that this condition could in the first instance be treated by talking therapies and help with her mental health issues? Or do you mean something else? If so, what exactly?

OP, you might find this article useful:
4thwavenow.com/2016/12/17/a-mums-voyage-through-transtopia-helps-her-daughter-desist/

It's written by the mother of a girl who was 15 when she started identifying as transgender and eventually desisted. At the end there's a short comment by the daughter about what she was thinking and what helped to get her through this period.

snekkes · 01/09/2021 12:47

I simply mean that one possibility is that OP’s kid is trans.

And that I don’t think OP or anyone else should be worried about that as the number one priority when the kid is suicidal and self-harming.

midgemagneto · 01/09/2021 13:58

The balance of probabilities say that the child is trans socially not trans innately ... ie it's a response to society not fundamental and so might be different in a different society /culture /space time

A trans supporting scientist once published that he had found about 7 children in the states who he believed to be innate trans ...compared to hundreds or thousands who are now identifying that way

History suggests .....talk to the older women who lived through the feeling that we were born in the wrong body , that something went wrong somewhere...that social trans is best handled by refusing to support the transistion and instead supporting the child to become comfortable with not conforming , showing them that they are just fantastic women ( men as appropriate)

Supporting a social transition by using pronouns and names reinforces the idea that considering yourself trans is a good idea ... something to be supported . Social Reward for being trans.

Since it's not innate , it's moulding someone to a current ideology that can lead to physical harm with no evidence that it reduces mental distress

Which is Bonkers at best

OldCrone · 01/09/2021 14:02

@snekkes

I simply mean that one possibility is that OP’s kid is trans.

And that I don’t think OP or anyone else should be worried about that as the number one priority when the kid is suicidal and self-harming.

I was asking what you meant by the phrase "OP’s kid is trans".

What does this mean?

ButterflyBitch · 01/09/2021 14:06

www.transgendertrend.com may be able to help. I’m sure they’d be able to give for some advice.

snekkes · 01/09/2021 18:00

I meant that OP’s kid might be trans… and might not be. And that that possibility shouldn’t be priority one when the kid is suicidal and self-harming. As I said.

I’m not going to derail this thread into a discussion of what “trans” means when OP has a child who’s clearly suffering.

2Rebecca · 01/09/2021 19:16

I would try getting her to focus on what she wants to do with her life. I think gender ideology is an unnecessary distraction at that age. It can be used as a distraction technique for that reason as teenagers use it as a reason to procrastinate "how can I decide what I want to study if I don't know if I want to study it as a girl or a boy" but most careers are open to both sexes and I would get her to focus more on life goals and hobbies. Trying to look as much like the other sex as possible is pretty rubbish as a life goal in my opinion.

OldCrone · 01/09/2021 20:57

I meant that OP’s kid might be trans… and might not be.

I don't think it's a derail to press you for an explanation of what you mean here. It is pertinent to the help we can give to people whose children identify as trans.

I don't believe that anyone is 'really trans' in the sense that they were literally 'born in the wrong body'. So we are left with the various manifestations of gender dysphoria. I think it would be more helpful to use this term than to talk about people being 'really trans', which implies that they were really 'born in the wrong body', when what you mean is that they are really suffering from gender dysphoria and not just confused or following the crowd.

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