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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jonny Best on Stonewall

13 replies

lionheart · 27/08/2021 11:02

unherd.com/2021/08/stonewalls-greatest-betrayal/

'The “no debate” strategy was intended to delegitimise opponents’ views while the charity worked behind the scenes with the Government to drive through its preferred changes to the Equality Act and the Gender Recognition Act before critical voices could get a public hearing.'

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NonnyMouse1337 · 27/08/2021 11:40

I enjoyed reading that. Summed up the issues and deep conflicts very well.

AnyOldPrion · 27/08/2021 12:49

Very interesting to read. The description of a schism within the lesbian and gay community itself was something I had not previously recognised. So the original and successful Stonewall agenda was always about the more conservative values, where lesbian and gay people more or less slotted into a normative version of society in a way that didn’t significantly affect others. Presumably that is why the brand was so successful.

But the more radical version sounds as if it might have echoes in Shon Faye’s agenda and perhaps goes some way towards explaining where some of this is coming from. Interesting that up till now, it’d been so carefully kept off the agenda, and more recently off the radar. The Brexit vote was probably indicative of anger in society, and perhaps a desire for change, but I suspect the desired change is more conservative in nature and doesn’t fit at all with the more anarchic agenda that is being demanded by some transactivists.

It also crosses my mind that perhaps the gay men who are somewhat unexpectedly so much in thrall to transactivism in its current form, have been far more aware and approving of the hidden-from-mainstream agenda and hence are significantly less astonished, perhaps even unaware of the extremity of those views, as for them they have been normalised by years of exposure.

Fascinating to gain some context about the origins of some of this.

Artichokeleaves · 27/08/2021 13:48

Excellent article.

This means that there are now two lobbying charities aiming to represent lesbian and gay people. Stonewall, which argues that the policies and principles of LGB Alliance (prioritising biological sex over gender identity) are transphobic, and LGB Alliance, which argues that the policies and principles of Stonewall (prioritising gender identity over biological sex) are homophobic.

This is the first time I think I've seen anywhere, the two positions stated equally. Transphobic/Homophobic. Transphobic and exclusionary of TW/Misogynistic and exclusionary of women. Transphobic/Incompatible with safeguarding. We need a lot more of this, let's be honest about the real issues here and then possibly we can sort out some practical solutions that work for everyone.

lionheart · 27/08/2021 14:01

Great to draw breath and look back on the path already taken.

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SpindleWhorl · 27/08/2021 14:33

I'll be reading it shortly. Thanks for the link.

GrimDamnFanjo · 27/08/2021 15:24

Jonny Best has done some good stuff around these issues.

SpindleWhorl · 27/08/2021 15:29

Yes he's great.

MiddlesexGirl · 27/08/2021 18:12

Agree with the above. Well reasoned.
Good to see people in the arts beginning to publicly question the trans-ideology. (See also Simon Callow and Cameron Macintosh).

MrsOvertonsWindow · 27/08/2021 18:46

Jonny writes so well about all this. I recall he has a Mumsnet account and used to pop up on here at the time of the Stonewall petition?

Aparallaxia · 27/08/2021 19:41

Great read, thanks.

BTW, does anyone know why this story was deleted?

medium.com/@JonnnyBest/calling-all-gay-men-women-need-you-to-speak-up-please-read-this-9df277ecb59e

Vargas · 27/08/2021 20:03

I find it so weird that LGB alliance get hassled for not including trans people. They don't include straight people but straight people aren't getting irate about it. Surely trans people have enough of their own organisations to be getting on with?

JonnyBest · 30/08/2021 16:30

Hi @Aparallaxia The story was deleted when I left Medium. When I started writing on Medium in 2018 they had not yet started censoring gender critical writers. But once they began doing that I didn't want to be on that platform at all.

Aparallaxia · 30/08/2021 19:27

Thank you Jonny for the explanation. I didn't realize Medium is anti-GC. That's a shame. I had a shufti and found this on their "Rules" page:

'Hateful content
We do not allow content that constitutes or promotes violence, harassment, or hatred against people based on characteristics like race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, caste, disability, disease, age, sexual orientation, gender, or gender identity.'

'Sex' isn't one of these 'characteristics.'

policy.medium.com/medium-rules-30e5502c4eb4

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