Another toilets one

[nowwhat50]

I've NC for obvious reasons. I think it's time to come out as GC at work.

Our Diversity and Inclusion policy makes no mention of Sex whatsoever. I've mentioned this to HR already, that they appear to have forgotten about sex as a protected characteristic, but not put it in writing. I got no response to my verbal comments, just a "oh really?"

We now have a new member of staff who is very obviously MtF trans. This isn't really a Trans issue as such, but my concern is the Equality Act. I have 3 different protected characteristics.

My workplace has a very recent history of not paying women the same as men for the same role. All new hires in to the same brand new team, the only female was paid £5k less than the lowest paid male.

They also have a very mixed history of supporting disabilities, removing adjustments without notice and making disabled employees fight for months to have those adjustments returned.

Homophobic and racist complaints where clear evidence of homophobia and racism have resulted in soft warnings rather than Gross Misconduct. I know this because I conducted the investigations and gathered the evidence on these complaints.

So my biggest concern in not where this new member of staff goes to pee, but holding my employer to account. The Equality Act is not optional, they can't pick and choose which bits to follow and I want to make that clear. I really didn't want to choose toilets as the hill I die on at work, but think this is what I'm going to have to do.

Can I have some advice please on how best to approach this? To assert my rights to single sex spaces and make this about the importance of adhering to The Equality Act, rather than making it about not wanting to share the toilets with a Trans person. TIA

It doesn't cover all the other people under the gender umbrella. It is only for transexuals. There is also an obligation to foster good relationships with those without protected characteristics. Also, one characteristic does not get to trump another. Thus a reasonable approach would be to identify a third space so that the needs of women, and transexuals are met.

The wording in the act is gender reassignment. The changing definition of gender reassignment is a problem, as is self ID. The moving of the goal posts is detrimental to women's sex based rights.

Is there a changing definition of gender reassignment? I assumed it meant they had a GRC. If you don't have a GRC you're not gender reassigned. ATM.

Self-ID would change that, but self-ID is not in supposed to be in effect in the UK right now. Oh, it might be in Scotland but they might just have circumvented the EA2010? Either way, they're fucked as far as this goes.

I thought that as long as some holds a gender recognition certificate, they would be allowed to use the women's toilets, and has been the case since 2010?

The single sex exemption IS optional and is applicable to goods and services providers. NOT employment. And you can't just make assumptions about a persons sex or gender.

@Gottalife

The single sex exemption IS optional and is applicable to goods and services providers. NOT employment. And you can't just make assumptions about a persons sex or gender.

It is indeed optional, the provision of single sex facilities. But why would you not want to provide this to women, knowing if you didn't a lot of women cannot or will not use your facilities? As far as employers are concerned, h&s states single sex toilets. I also think it is more than reasonable to ask your employer to provide single sex toilets. As far as I know employers have a duty of care to provide adequate working environment and ensure employees safety and health.

I never understand why people argue single sex toilets are a bad thing when it is clear they are needed by a large group of human beings who have different toilet needs than another group. Peeing is still a biology thing, not a gender thing.

The protections for gender re-assignment in employment are clear.
The OP has the newly aquired right to GC beliefs in employment but could risk disciplinary action by voicing objections to the employers obligations under the law.

From Government Equalities Office. Guide to Employers.

Use of facilities – a trans person should be free to select the facilities appropriate
to the gender in which they present. For example, when a trans person starts to
live in their acquired gender role on a full time basis they should be afforded the
right to use the facilities appropriate to the acquired gender role. Employers should
avoid discriminating against anyone with the protected characteristic of ‘gender
reassignment’. Where employers already offer gender-neutral toilets and changing
facilities, the risk of creating a barrier for transgender people is alleviated.

I've been reading all the replies and feel somewhat less confident now. If my employer can say no, and not risk upsetting the pro trans LGBT group at work, then this is the route they will take. Our HR team are both woke and spineless.

Use of facilities – a trans person should be free to select the facilities appropriate
to the gender in which they present. For example, when a trans person starts to
live in their acquired gender role on a full time basis they should be afforded the
right to use the facilities appropriate to the acquired gender role.*

It would be good to ask HR what gender role means and how you can determine that as an outsider. Or is the consequence that no one can challenge someone of the opposite sex in a toilet anymore.

It also doesn't answer my question of why anyone thinks women do not deserve single sex toilets but should accept single sex that are actually mixed sex. Mixed sex toilets have different requirements you see.

Isn't there a difference between should and must within guidance for employers? Must is law, should is a suggestion? Can't remember where I read that now but I do remember feeling angry at the time that it wasn't clearer.

@nowwhat50

I've been reading all the replies and feel somewhat less confident now. If my employer can say no, and not risk upsetting the pro trans LGBT group at work, then this is the route they will take. Our HR team are both woke and spineless.

Truth is this is probably the wrong place to ask advice re employment law. Especially if taking the wrong advice results is a disciplinary or dismissal.

Conniethesensible
While the EA 2010 protects Sex, it also protects gender identity. And bathrooms fall under this.

Gender Identity is not a protected characteristic, Gender reassignment is.

The single sex exemption IS optional and is applicable to goods and services providers. NOT employment.

This is nonsense. Of course it applies to employers or they would be able to discriminate at will, as it is from the Equality Act 2010 which employers are subject to. You're making it up as you go along.

@Gottalife

The single sex exemption IS optional and is applicable to goods and services providers. NOT employment. And you can't just make assumptions about a persons sex or gender.

HSAW regulations however do apply to employment

Any decent employer would want ALL employees to access safe, clean, bathroom facilities. Mixed sex for those that require that option, single unit mixed sex/gender neutral for individuals requiring them, and single sex for Women who need that option. Women do not have to allow males into spaces that are meant to be single sex. We don't consent to that. It really is that simple.

@Gottalife

The protections for gender re-assignment in employment are clear. The OP has the newly aquired right to GC beliefs in employment but could risk disciplinary action by voicing objections to the employers obligations under the law.

From Government Equalities Office. Guide to Employers.

Use of facilities – a trans person should be free to select the facilities appropriate
to the gender in which they present. For example, when a trans person starts to
live in their acquired gender role on a full time basis they should be afforded the
right to use the facilities appropriate to the acquired gender role. Employers should
avoid discriminating against anyone with the protected characteristic of ‘gender
reassignment’. Where employers already offer gender-neutral toilets and changing
facilities, the risk of creating a barrier for transgender people is alleviated.

How recent is this?

The Governmenr Equalities Office has, in the very recent past, provided what they now recognise to be incorrect advice on this subject.

HSAW regulations however do apply to employment

Yes they do. But so does the Equality Act, including the potential exemptions for single sex facilities.

Toilet, not bathrooms surely?

Simply being uncomfortable with them being trans

It's about being uncomfortable with males, nothing to do with the gender identity of any males.

The OP has the newly aquired right to GC beliefs

What!

I've never believed humans can change sex, never believed men are women or can become women or can live as women. I've always had the right to believe that and always will, it isn't a newly acquired right! Blimey, the madness gets funnier.

@Fitt

The OP has the newly aquired right to GC beliefs

What!

I've never believed humans can change sex, never believed men are women or can become women or can live as women. I've always had the right to believe that and always will, it isn't a newly acquired right! Blimey, the madness gets funnier.

It is has been newly acknowledged in law that it is a protected belief.

And, yes, the world has gone mad. Fortunately, although the law was late to the party, it did come to the party with cold ice to subdue some crazy ideas.

The OP has the newly aquired right to GC beliefs in employment
Could you enlighten me on which law previously outlawed those beliefs please, @Gottalife

@DifficultBloodyWoman "How recent is this?

The Governmenr Equalities Office has, in the very recent past, provided what they now recognise to be incorrect advice on this subject."

The quote is from 2015 Recruiting and retaining transgender staff: a guide for employers

www.gov.uk/government/publications/recruiting-and-retaining-transgender-staff-a-guide-for-employers

Just found this link about Incorrect advice.

uncommongroundmedia.com/the-2010-equality-act-is-being-undermined-by-official-guidance/

"EHRC guidance is, on the whole, accurate and reliable. But in relation to the single-sex exception – the---- part of the Act which protects women-only spaces – the EHRC’s guidance is, in many instances, incorrect.

As a result of complaints, in Oct 2018 the EHRC amended two pieces of guidance which stated that transwomen with a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) must not be refused access to women-only spaces – guidance which actually contravenes the Equality Act. Here’s the actual statement:

‘Where someone has a gender recognition certificate they should be treated in their acquired gender for all purposes and therefore should not be excluded from single-sex services.’

Though that statement was removed from the EHRC guidance referred to above, it remains in a plethora of other EHRC guidance.
If that’s not shocking enough, the incorrect guidance has been in existence for six years. Thus, for the last six years people have been incorrectly told that transwomen with a GRC have an automatic right to enter and use women-only spaces."

@nowwhat50

Just found this link about Incorrect advice.

uncommongroundmedia.com/the-2010-equality-act-is-being-undermined-by-official-guidance/

"EHRC guidance is, on the whole, accurate and reliable. But in relation to the single-sex exception – the---- part of the Act which protects women-only spaces – the EHRC’s guidance is, in many instances, incorrect.

As a result of complaints, in Oct 2018 the EHRC amended two pieces of guidance which stated that transwomen with a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) must not be refused access to women-only spaces – guidance which actually contravenes the Equality Act. Here’s the actual statement:

‘Where someone has a gender recognition certificate they should be treated in their acquired gender for all purposes and therefore should not be excluded from single-sex services.’

Though that statement was removed from the EHRC guidance referred to above, it remains in a plethora of other EHRC guidance.
If that’s not shocking enough, the incorrect guidance has been in existence for six years. Thus, for the last six years people have been incorrectly told that transwomen with a GRC have an automatic right to enter and use women-only spaces."

That is just someone's opinion. No legal bearing whatsoever.