We don't get upset when people misgender our LO's so why is there such a huge drama about adults?

[Peppapigforlife]

Well maybe some people do get upset when people misgender (or mis-sex, or however you want to say it) their child, but I'm sure the majority of us reasonably minded parents brush it off.
If my little girl isn't wearing pink most people assume she is a boy, but I don't get upset about it. It's just one of those things.

Yet I'm going to a ticketed event soon where the organisers have announced (long after the tickets were all sold) that we must refer to every single one of the 2k other people as 'they', until we know for definite, the gender of the person. Why does everyone have to make such a big deal out of these things for adults? It's the first time I'm going somewhere social without kids in two years and I feel like I'm stepping into a very childish world compared to the parent world.

@Stealhsquirrelnutkin

The problem arises when you make a point of misgendering them repeatedly. This is demonstrably harmful, and even if you don't believe in their identity - which is fine, I can't make you believe in a philosophy that you haven't been convinced on - rejecting trans identity doubles their chance of suicide.

People who are so fragile they kill themselves when other people refuse to play along with their delusions need therapy.

Threatening suicide and insisting that other people must be forced to tell lies, thereby undermining their own mental health is unreasonable, and a sign of a disordered personality.

The people threatening to kill themselves need to take responsibility for their own health and wellbeing. Get therapy and learn to live in the real world. Just like the rest of us have to do.

Plenty of us have our own mental and physical health challenges, and more than enough shit in our own lives to be getting on with. It's time the cry bullies stopped trying to manipulate us and diverted their energies to fixing their own problems.

Totally agree Stealth.

It's manipulative, controlling and coercive to force, or attempt to force, people to lie for your own benefit.

Yes op this really bothers me too. With two boys who regularly get mistaken for girls, I've made a point of only correcting people when necessary and they are now the same. Too much in society teaches us that girls and women are lesser than. I felt that constantly correcting every miss-sexing would have compounded this. I have taught them it is not an insult or a problem, unless the other person or service actually needs to know their sex. I don't think it's a coincidence my eldest actively calls out sexism.

I'm pretty concerned about the regressive nature of this new message creeping in. I think it directly harms children especially girls.

you don't get upset. There's your answer. As horrifying as it might sound the world doesn't revolve around you

Agree it is the quite the manufactured crime to make being 'misgendered' a dreadful event. One where the person who was addressed as the opposite sex is so offended that it is stated it can result in suicide.

When young, my hair was quite short a times as it was practical. Visiting a santa one Christmas, I was given a present from the boys box. It was a torch and I was very happy with it. Country girl with anorak, trousers, short hair and practical shoes was mistaken for a boy by the person playing Santa.

Fast forward to my very early twenties. Slim, cropped hair. Hooded anorak and jeans on a wet day. As the man behind the counter was being replaced by another assistant, he asked them to serve me. The man referred to me as a lad.

I remember it, but was certainly not upset by it, and I was actually a young woman who was referred to as a lad. I agree that someone who is so traumatised by what they class as 'misgendering' probably needs help in the form of therapy or counselling as the problem is not the 'misgendering'.

One thing that would upset me is being compelled to lie. I personally would find that abusive. And bullying.

That is what I do and would find upsetting.

If misgendering is such a painful and traumatic experience for adults with dysphoria then I question why true signs of ones sex (for example remaining intact for males or choosing to fall pregnant and give birth for females) are not.

Can you please provide a link to this event, because it seems a bit far fetched?

The people threatening to kill themselves need to take responsibility for their own health and wellbeing Blimey. Bit harsh!
I think the event where you have to call everyone “they” sounds bizarre, and most trans people would find it odd too. It’s often said within the trans community that mis-gendering isn’t a big deal and that if it happens to just apologise and move on. I suspect that the person organising the event is young and not trans themselves.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen clear stats on misgendering leads to suicide, I might think differently if I saw those.
When my boys get misgendered I don’t care- I think it really shouldn’t matter what sex they are so why make a big deal? Unfortunately especially for women it will matter quite a lot as they get older ie teens and start to experience the differences, let them not care while they can.

Just to add though I generally do think it’s very rude to deliberately misgendering as an adult who’s capable of understanding why this is being asked! Exceptions - if you’re waving a penis around me, or convicted of sexual assault with a penis, don’t expect me to call you she. In the first example if you wanted to be she that much you’d respect a bit more the actuality of being female which does not involve waving penises around (given I don’t hang around nudist colonies, swingers events or anywhere I’d expect to see a naked male who isn’t my husband). I also don’t for a moment expect someone’s 80 year old gran to adjust to say he to someone to all appearances female or vice versa, or my 6yo.

If someone is suicidal, that is something that needs to be treated.

Hoping everyone plays along with a pretence in order to reduce their suicidality is not a treatment

Yes Stealth. Society cannot tiptoe on eggshells around everyone who might be suicidal if others don’t maintain their personal fantasy. You will never get 100% compliance and that level of fragility cannot be made others’ responsibility.

With the deepest compassion, those who feel this way need personalised therapy and support.

fillywonk, saying no transwoman thinks they have XX chromosomes.

Not so. There's a whole series of reports from genetic testing services like 23andMe. Transwoman writes in telling them the report is wrong because it doesn't show two X chromosomes. "I've transitioned! You need to rerun the analysis! I want my money back!"

Self-delusion is powerful. Or maybe it's just the power of a stunning ignorance of the facts of life.

I think by the time someone is a grown adult, they should have learned the world doesn't revolve around them and other people have their own concerns.

https://www.pressreader.com/canada/the-coast/20160310/281492160415933

"Why Misgendering Is Violence". This delightful piece from a Canadian magazine I think got removed.

Misgendering is compared to a "Rehtaeh Parsons case" and the author laments why it doesn't get "in the news or talked about" in the same way.

Rehtaeh Parsons was a 17 year old girl who was the victim of gang rape and cyberbullying in Nova Scotia, whose rape was photographed and posted online. She killed herself a year later after the police dropped charges after a cursory investigation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuicideoffRehtaehParsons

I really have no words for people who think that's comparable with your sex being accurately referenced.

@fillywonk a poster on this thread repeatedly states that biological sex can be altered - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4328793-I-found-this-slightly-reassuring-re-girls-IDing-as-boys

As a pp has said, the transpeople you know may know they cannot change sex but to say 'this is a bit of a lie' is simply untrue. We have seen it asserted many times on this board.

I've been.called sir ir mistaken fir a bloke a fair few times. Its not a value judgement so why would I care. I.maimy served men.at work so I've accidentally called the odd woman sir too.

Now if I kicked off over a mistake or was frequently acting so paranoid everyone was against me and expected everyone to say what I told them , I'd expect to be ditched by my friends ir given a slap or both.

What I wouldn't expect was to be indulged. I'm.not that special. No one outside my friends and family owes me anything and I should just he told to getbon and watch/do whatever I was there for instead of making everything about me.

@happydays2345

you don't get upset. There's your answer. As horrifying as it might sound the world doesn't revolve around you

Good God, the irony!

@fillywonk you've shared the same study twice, but it doesn't include anything about pronoun use. Are you just hoping people won't read it?

@fillywonk Thanks for the link. I'd like to understand the magnitude of the problem. Do you know of any similar studies that compare people who identify as trans vs other groups, e.g. by sexual orientation, sex, race, religion, etc?