'Women and other minority genders'

[VeryLittleOwl]

Just seen this on the bottom of the job advert for a new Chair of Historic Environment Scotland's board of trustees.

"Scottish Ministers particularly welcome applications from groups currently under-represented on Scotland's public bodies such as women and other minority genders, disabled people, ethnic minorities, people aged under 50, people that identify as LGBTI."

applications.appointed-for-scotland.org/pages/job_search_view.aspx?jobId=3954&JobIndex=1&categoryList=&minsal=0&maxsal=150000&workingPatternList=&keywords=&PageIndex=1&Number=10

Speechless!!

And this is why I'm never applying for another corporate job. They've all taken leave of their senses.

What does the I in LGBTQI stand for?

Surely, surely that was posted, unedited, in error?

In other words, if you are not a white heterosexual able-bodied male you are a minority.

Right-oh.

Well I guess if woman doesn't mean AHF , but some kind of feminine gender identity, then there is a high degree of probability that "woman " are a minority

Of course we need clarification, the none woman , none trans , AHF are then also a minority, are they also welcome ?

How much are these "other minority genders" underrepresented? Let's see the data... List them, for starters, then give us population percentages versus staff.

You do have that data, right?

Or is "underrepresented" a thing you can just identify as too?

@TheWeeDonkey

What does the I in LGBTQI stand for?

Intersex - they are misusing people's health conditions to further their agenda, even though many intersex people and support groups have repeatedly asked not to include their condition in the ever expanding collection of random 'identities' as intersex issues have nothing to do with sexual orientation or gender identity.

@YetAnotherSpartacus

In other words, if you are not a white heterosexual able-bodied male you are a minority.

Right-oh.

White, heterosexual, able-bodied males are a minority if they adopt a suitable identity from the approved list of oppression.

It has been argued by some feminists and others that women are a 'minority' even if they are 52% of the population.

There are sociological minorities and mathematical minorities.

See also M Gove demanding that more children should be above average.

White, heterosexual, able-bodied males are a minority if they adopt a suitable identity from the approved list of oppression

Yes, but it still leaves those males as the norm.

@YetAnotherSpartacus

White, heterosexual, able-bodied males are a minority if they adopt a suitable identity from the approved list of oppression

Yes, but it still leaves those males as the norm.

Ah but the magical pronouncement of oppression resolves this conundrum, you see. 😬

@Jaysmith71

It has been argued by some feminists and others that women are a 'minority' even if they are 52% of the population.

There are sociological minorities and mathematical minorities.

See also M Gove demanding that more children should be above average.

"A minority group, by its original definition, refers to a group of people whose practices, race, religion, ethnicity, or other characteristics are fewer in numbers than the main groups of those classifications. However, in present-day sociology, a minority group refers to a category of people who experience relative disadvantage as compared to members of a dominant social group."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority_group

FFS, woman is an identity and people with intersex conditions have to wear their condition like a badge of honour?

Can you imagine working for a company like that? I would find that unbearable. I go to work to work, and when I'm at work my sex, race, religion etc etc are not the most important things about me.

Well, that is interesting, Jay. Could they not have come up with a unique and clearer term than one that already has a well understood definition?

Sometimes it feels like people are deliberately trying to fudge things.

Absolute batshit.

On another point, is saying you would particularly welcome applications from people under 50 age discrimination?

I dunno, I think it's not a bad go at trying to sort out inclusion and representation across the board ('board' pun not intended), and whilst I'm bored of tokenistic "representation" without purpose, actually in a role like this i think ensuring you have a diverse group is necessary and important.

I think I might be one of the "some feminists" mentioned upthread as preferring to describe women as a minority - depends on context of course but if we're talking about being minoritised, a group experiencing systematic discrimination, often a mathematical minority in eg the workforce or most spheres of power and influence, I don't think it's a problematic term. Likewise what we often describe as "ethnic minority" is in fact... a global majority, and also a mathematical majority in eg my son's (London) school, so mathematically it all depends on your definition of the wider population really.

I think people who identify as genders other than their (observed at birth/reassigned in old-style 'transsexual' terms) sex obviously exist, and are also clearly minority genders. Do I support creating a process to record this on official statistics or passports, no, am I happy for them to live their best lives and contribute to the vision for Historic Scotland who simultaneously recognise women as an underrepresented and often ignored group, 100%.

I think opposing all attempts at explicit trans inclusion starts to look more like transphobia than defending women's rights, and I'm speaking as someone who has lost friends for beliefs I would call feminist and they would call transphobic.

"Well, that is interesting..."

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all.”

@TheWeeDonkey

What does the I in LGBTQI stand for?

Idiotic?

I think what I take issue with, and I'm finding hard to articulate, is that clearly someone there has done all of the diversity training and box ticking exercises, but this seems so perfomative. Its alright saying we've created these new guidelines so people over 50 are no use to us and its essential that people share the sexuality, religious and ideological beliefs with us to fit in. It would be much better, but admittedly harder to have a culture where these aspects of you are just part of who you are and not the defining part of who you are.

Does that make sense?

i think ensuring you have a diverse group is necessary and important.

Yep, a group consisting of 100% misogynists is greatly improved if they have assorted skin colours.

Broadly, yes, representations of groups is probably a Good Thing, but is it enough of a Good Thing to justify all the Bad Things that arise from explicit discrimination intended to achieve it? And aren't there Better Things?

And all the stuff about "minority" or "majority" is irrelevant. They're arguing on the basis of "underrepresentation", and either a majority or minority can be underrepresented.

I suspect trans-identified people are overrepresented in quite a lot of areas, such as Scotland's public bodies. They're probably underrepresented in real jobs.

But again, we don't have any data...

I've certainly worked in places where trans males were massively over-represented and women massively underrepresented.

It's not actually explicit discrimination though is it? It's a 'we particularly welcome applications' gesture.

I work (and frequently interview) for a public sector organisation which has similar wording - not the stuff about 'minority genders' but something that indicates we know there are groups underrepresented in our organisation and we're serious about addressing that. It does not form part of the decision making process at sift (where it's unknown) or at interview (when the visible things are visible).

My friend is intersex, it isn't an identity it's a medical diagnosis FFS! It really upsets her to be represented in this way. Her condition has massive implications for her whole life.

It may be that certain groups are under-represented in their organisation, rather than in the population as a whole. So perhaps there is say, a lack of young people in the organisation.

But I have some doubts that this is actually the case here across all the groups they mention - does it actually make any sense to say you want more representation of intersex people? They are a small enough group that many workplaces simply won't have such a person on their staff, not because they are discriminatory but because there aren't enough to go around - which is a slightly distastful way to think of people.

My anecdotal observation is that it isn't always the case anyway that groups actually go looking for people from groups where they have less than average representation. For example I applied for a job a year or so ago with a statement to the effect of "we welcome applicants from these diverse groups" and what I found when I got the job was they were in fact mostly women (no surprise as it's a sector dominated by women) but also quite a few other "gender minorities" and LGB representation was well above the population average. By rights they should have been looking for black applicants, working class or applicants from underpriveleged backgrounds, and white male applicants.

What's more worrying though is that the implication to the person reading the ad isn't just that they would welcome "diverse" applicants, it's that they aren't so keen on non-diverse applicants. I'm sure that's not the intent, but it's the effect, and it doesn't o anyone any good to give people the sense that hiring is happening on the basis of these kinds of identities.

I think this is poor wording or grammar more than anything. When they say 'women and......' , what they mean is that those groups of people are under-represented in certain fields, so there's a recruitment drive to get them on board. It doesn't mean they think that women are a minority gender.....although you never know!