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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Telegraph: Top ballet schools ditching leotards to help transgender dancers

64 replies

LazyViper · 21/08/2021 20:28

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/21/uks-top-ballet-schools-ditching-leotards-tights-aid-transgender/

Some of Britain's top ballet schools are preparing to do away with leotards and tights to be more inclusive of transgender performers, The Telegraph can reveal.

A group of sister schools teaching ballet and contemporary dance have pledged to support the transition of transgender students who may be self-conscious about their bodies.

Loose-fitting clothing should be promoted in classes over traditional skin-tight leotards and tights commonplace in dance, according to inclusivity protocols touching on student anatomy.

The guidelines have been adopted to address dance subjects by London Contemporary Dance School, Northern School of Contemporary Dance, the Rambert School, and the Central School of Ballet.

Their protocols state: “Form fitting clothing may force trans people to use unhealthy methods to conceal their bodies such as binding or tucking.

“It is important for trans people to not feel self-conscious during training.”

Paywall, but you get the gist.

Would be interested to learn how many trans students these ballet schools expect to admit.

Isn’t it also quite important for students’ bodies to be visible so they can correct their form during classes? Hence the reason for tight clothing in the first place?

OP posts:
FeatheredHope · 21/08/2021 20:35

Fuxk me. I mean great, but… I can’t help be annoyed It’s been fine to force girls and women into leotards and tights all this time (along with the body and eating issues that it exacerbates)

FeatheredHope · 21/08/2021 20:36

Sorry posted too soon….but heaven forbid a trans person feels self conscious.

LizzieSiddal · 21/08/2021 20:36

It’s been fine to force girls and women into leotards and tights all this time (along with the body and eating issues that it exacerbates)

Exactly, makes me so cross!

OhHolyJesus · 21/08/2021 20:42

This is similar to British gymnastics IIRC.

Girls complain, nothing changes.

Transgender gymnast makes a complaint, proposal and change immediately enacted.

Starlitexpress · 21/08/2021 20:45

But I thought both sexes wore leotards, tights and close fitting clothes in general, and both tend to have body issues. And males dancers have taken on traditional females roles, such as Matthew Bournes Swan Lake. What am I not getting?

ArabellaScott · 21/08/2021 20:57

Male people's feelings matter more than girls'.

I mean, great that they're changing it. But how come women don't ever get listened to?

FeatheredHope · 21/08/2021 21:02

And the irony of using things like preventing the risk of binding as a reason. Believe me, women in prestigious ballet schools have been binding for decades in order to conform to the body shapes that ballet schools demanded.

IvyTwines2 · 21/08/2021 21:07

I'm glad they say clearly that binding and tucking are unhealthy and something to be avoided.

christinarossetti19 · 21/08/2021 21:10

Dress requirements for female ballet dancers have always been more demanding.

Must wear tights. Hair in a bun. No knickers under leotard for exams. Different colour leotards for different exams...

I thought students in class wore less formal attire, but maybe not.

The reason always given is that the teacher/examiner/auditioner/audience need to see the line of the body and how the girl holds herself.

So it's interesting to see that that doesn't now seem to be the sacrosanct principle that it has been for decades.

Comefromaway · 21/08/2021 21:11

@FeatheredHope

And the irony of using things like preventing the risk of binding as a reason. Believe me, women in prestigious ballet schools have been binding for decades in order to conform to the body shapes that ballet schools demanded.
This.

And boys/men have to wear a dance belt for safety reasons so their buts don’t move during jumps and get injured.

The boys uniform at my daughter’s school was just as form fitting, if not more so than the girls. And the uniform leotards only suited one body type, totally flat, not larger chested like my dd is. (Though they did recently change that).

Comefromaway · 21/08/2021 21:15

@christinarossetti19

Dress requirements for female ballet dancers have always been more demanding.

Must wear tights. Hair in a bun. No knickers under leotard for exams. Different colour leotards for different exams...

I thought students in class wore less formal attire, but maybe not.

The reason always given is that the teacher/examiner/auditioner/audience need to see the line of the body and how the girl holds herself.

So it's interesting to see that that doesn't now seem to be the sacrosanct principle that it has been for decades.

To be fair some of those rules are not rules.

My dd always wore knickers and wore the same colour leotard for all her exams from the age of 11 to age 18. Only her school leotard changed from one colour/style in years 7-10, to another colour/style in year 10 onwards.

LazyViper · 21/08/2021 21:33

And seriously, how many students are we talking about here? Is it possible any of these schools will have no trans students this year? Or are they expecting an influx?

Seems a big culture change for a possibly tiny or non-existent cohort.

OP posts:
IvyTwines2 · 21/08/2021 21:44

What are the numbers of children now identifying as 'trans' or 'non-binary'? It must be a lot, because everyone I know with teenagers or teenaged relatives knows or knows of at least one, and in some cases several. Almost all the ones I know of through friends and family are female.

CloseYourEyesAndSee · 21/08/2021 21:49

How many male ballet dancers will be joining top ballet schools as women? And vice versa? It's not likely to happen is it??

WowStarsWow · 21/08/2021 21:53

@IvyTwines2

What are the numbers of children now identifying as 'trans' or 'non-binary'? It must be a lot, because everyone I know with teenagers or teenaged relatives knows or knows of at least one, and in some cases several. Almost all the ones I know of through friends and family are female.
My SIL is a teacher at a secondary school and she told me that they get emails about a student’s change of name/pronouns at the rate of one per day. That blew my mind.
nepeta · 22/08/2021 02:47

One reason (not the only one,, of course) for tightly fitting clothing is that it allows the teacher to see a knee bent when it should not and so on. But I do agree that women and girls have had little say in any of this as they are not people expected to demand change.

TerrifiedDancer · 22/08/2021 03:17

Dancer here. Where do I even start with this?!?

Firstly - yes, tight clothing is worn by both sexes for a reason, so that the teacher can see what you are doing and make corrections. The more advanced you get (ie. anyone at the 16+ stage of training in one of the elite schools mentioned) the more minute and specific the corrections are, and so the harder mistakes will be to spot with baggy stuff on. This will likely diminish the standard of the student's training (although I guess if it's a personal choice and not enforced then that's up to them). The speed, scale and fanfare of these changes does make me feel slightly ill though, just to think of the number of young female students who have begged for much more minor adjustments to the uniform code over the years, such as skirts or black tights instead of pink to make things easier for some of them at certain times of the month. Female ballet students have been reprimanded for this in some of these ballet schools for years. Our discomfort clearly never mattered enough.

Secondly, ballet, by it's very nature IS gender specific. Its tradition is literally built on this. If someone has an issue with this then why would they want to do it professionally in the first place? There is a non-binary, (male) dancer at Pacific Northwest Ballet now who expects to dance roles of both sexes onstage. This in itself shows truly breathtaking male privilege, as a female dancer would never have dreamed of making such a request, and from experience, are shot down for making much more modest requests. As far as I can see, this apparent change largely benefits male dancers only. Female ballet dancers are selected to be small, slim, and oftentimes hyper-extended. This kind of physique is not compatible with the lifting requirement inherent in taking on a male role in classical ballet, where you are expected to lift other dancers. There is also a growing pressure in contemporary for women to lift other dancers - quite honestly this alarms some of us as it is really not the kind of job description that we signed up for... I may also add that some female dancers have asked to be allowed to learn men's jumps for decades - not to take their roles away, but just to be allowed to execute those steps AS WOMEN - and were repeatedly refused.

But finally, the thing that terrifies me most is the changing room requirement. At a time when the dance world (and the wider world) is finally waking up to the huge level of sexual abuse and harassment that has been swept under the carpet by schools and companies FOR YEARS .....the schools respond to it by throwing the one safe, single sex space female dancers have out of the window. This is not safe. These aren't changing rooms with individual cubicles and curtains and most of the outfits we wear it is almost impossible to change out of in a modest fashion - some degree of nudity is almost inevitable. Some people prefer to shower - these will also 9 times out of 10 be communal.

Professional dancers and vocational students are extremely vulnerable in a several ways. The hands on nature of the training and the normality of partnering mean that the early warning signs of boundaries being crossed aren't always there in the way that they would be in life outside of dance. Also, students and professionals are constantly told how lucky we are to be chosen and how easily we can be replaced. Every dancer or student knows someone who has been asked to leave their school or not had a contract renewed by their company because they stepped out of line. It is almost impossible to speak up about anything at all, let alone an issue as toxic as the gender debate.

The changing room situation has already arisen in real life at studios hosting adult open classes - it was the women who spoke up who were shut down and threatened with being banned rather than the person who made them feel uncomfortable. It is the women who are avoiding using the changing facilities they are entitled to as a result. Thanks to the ongoing culture of silence around these issues, a fair number of those female dancers will have histories of sexual assault, and almost all of them will have experienced sexual harassment. They are being completely failed.

Once again the dance world shows it doesn't give a sh*t about female dancers.

Help.

TerrifiedDancer · 22/08/2021 03:28

@christinarossetti19

Dress requirements for female ballet dancers have always been more demanding.

Must wear tights. Hair in a bun. No knickers under leotard for exams. Different colour leotards for different exams...

I thought students in class wore less formal attire, but maybe not.

The reason always given is that the teacher/examiner/auditioner/audience need to see the line of the body and how the girl holds herself.

So it's interesting to see that that doesn't now seem to be the sacrosanct principle that it has been for decades.

The no knickers under leotards thing for little kids in local schools really needs to stop. It's the first thing in a chain of several that sets female dancers up to ignore their boundaries.

If a teacher starts demanding this please tell them that all professional female dancers wear knickers under their leotards and costumes.

As long as they don't show it's fine.

If the teacher insists, and the child is uncomfortable with it that's a red flag to me. I knew several kids in my childhood ballet classes who quit for precisely this reason.

Fallingirl · 22/08/2021 03:54

That is all horrific, Terrified.

I would normally say that the dance world needs a test case regarding the changing rooms. Someone actually being assaulted. But then you have had assault after assault after assault, and nothing changes.

I honestly cannot see what will help right now.

It is also pretty awful on stage where you might end up with situations where a biological female identifying as something under the trans umbrella would be required to lift a biological male also identifying, e.g a non-binary trans masculine person lifting a non-binary-trans feminine individual. I had never thought of it in those terms before, but dance is a contact sport. Hopefully common sense is beginning to set in in sport.

Kanaloa · 22/08/2021 04:01

Aren’t boys supposed to wear tights also though? There are two boys in my dd ballet class and they wear very fitted tights/leggings with tucked in tops, nothing loose. It’s so the teachers can observe their legs and form clearly.

I’ve never heard of not being allowed to wear underpants though, my daughter has always worn them at classes and exams, no problems. She does have to have her hair in a bun but that makes sense to me, even if I braided her hair tightly it would still be flying about.

Kanaloa · 22/08/2021 04:03

Although I would think it would be very difficult for a trans person to join a girls ballet school - I’ve heard from others that as the girls get older it gets worse and more competitive, and having the ‘right’ type of body is very necessary.

nolongersurprised · 22/08/2021 04:24

There was a ballet dancer described in Abigail Shrier’s book who, once they began identifying as male, convinced their ballet company to let them dance male roles. This was problems because they weren’t strong enough, and so were dropping the female dancers

TerrifiedDancer · 22/08/2021 04:25

@Kanaloa

Although I would think it would be very difficult for a trans person to join a girls ballet school - I’ve heard from others that as the girls get older it gets worse and more competitive, and having the ‘right’ type of body is very necessary.
Yes, boys also wear tights etc. I just mentioned the girls as I've only ever known the girls ask for modifications - shorts, black tights, even a skirt. I never really had this problem myself, but it makes my blood boil to read that article after watching many of my classmates struggle with the dress code and periods. They were almost always told to shut up, put up and get on with it. The difference in treatment is shocking. I expect there are also boys out there who might have liked the option to cover up as well though.

Agree that it would be hard for a transgirl to join a professional ballet school as a girl. In all of the cases I've heard of so far though it has been a boy/man who is already in the school and has decided to transition.

Boys and men in ballet get all sorts of rules bent for them, there are huge double standards. Giving them a way to get easy access to the women's changing rooms that cannot be questioned can only make this worse.

The case at the studio I mentioned was someone who had been known to everyone as a man for years and then suddenly started using the women's changing room.

nolongersurprised · 22/08/2021 04:32

Problematic, not problems

TerrifiedDancer · 22/08/2021 04:42

@nolongersurprised

There was a ballet dancer described in Abigail Shrier’s book who, once they began identifying as male, convinced their ballet company to let them dance male roles. This was problems because they weren’t strong enough, and so were dropping the female dancers
Interesting - I have been meaning to read that book...not surprised they were dropping people. I'm sure there are women out there that could lift well enough, but they are very unlikely to be the ones who end up in ballet companies!

As Fallingirl said above, at the highest levels it is very much a contact sport.