The lions and meat argument

[54321nought]

without mentioning which particular culture or cultures this argument comes from, as I don't want this to get into ethnic identities, just

I feel such rage when I hear this

if you put meat in front of lions, they will eventually eat it- its natural

In other words, women should cover up

its the comparison between men and lions that ramps up the rage for me, lions being seen as representing strength, courage, majesty, etc (never mind that they are in real life mostly scrawny scavengers)

my stock answer is what you are describing is more like flies and meat

but that misses the point really

Sounds like a man giving us a great reason to impose a curfew on anyone with an xy chromosome!

Since he is saying men can’t elk themselves then surely he won’t object to safety measures being implemented. Men in after dark, not allowed out without an elderly female relative who will vouch for him.

So he has saying since men can’t help themselves then they need strict control measures. Interesting!

@Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons

DdraigGoch Yes, but the male always eats first, followed by the cubs and finally then the lionesses will get their share. True - I got focused on the hunt rather than the actual (grim) analogy of meat. Plus I always get really cross about the lioness hunters getting to eat last

If it makes you feel better, the males have a few good years of living like a king on the back of the lionesses hard work, but once a better male comes along, he gets kicked out of the pride and often dies much younger than the females because he’s not a good enough hunter to feed himself. He needs those lionesses far more than they need him.

Oh and then there’s the fact that when lionesses want to mate, they bite the males balls! 😄

Weirdly enough I found out about that ball biting thing yesterday.

Although there’s some would be up for it.

That culture (which I assume is some parts of the mid east) is articulating only what we believe in the UK.

Take this for instance.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-39305042

The idea that this man perhaps should not have had sex with a girl he just met in a taxi rank. This man raped that child, she was 12 years old. The law, and indeed most people I discussed this with at the time (including on this board), did not feel he should be held responsible for his actions. I think this comes from the same school of thought as the lion proverb.

I feel the same about "rough sex" defenses, and disputes about child support when the man "thought she was on the pill".

The starting point for all these things (men "tricked" into raping children, men who "accidentally" kill or injure during "rough sex" and men who "accidentally" get women pregnant) seems to be that men will of course have sex and should be able to implicitly trust women when making decisions about sex. Women are the ones who have to take care in these matters, not men. Boys will be boys after all.

I bet a lot of women don’t report rape in countries like Saudi Arabia because if they do they risk arrest or worse.

Absolutely mycat. Reporting levels are low here, they must be tiny in countries where the lion/meat analogy is considered a normal analysis, and women can be shot by family members for leaving the house unaccompanied. Whether they're wearing one bit of cloth or another is a bit of a distraction in some ways.

DH's erstwhile best mate used to think that it was OK for men to be unfaithful because they were genetically programmed to spread their seed (he'd read 'The Red Queen' and decided he knew everything). He was a dick who never got another shag after his wife kicked him out though.

Outside of being a horrible sentiment, it’s generally just a pretty stupid thing to say - no women are walking around naked in front of the ‘lions’ who can’t control themselves. Most rapists go out to rape a woman, doesn’t usually matter what that woman is wearing. So the implication that covering up will stop men from raping you isn’t true, it just doesn’t work.

Even in countries where women cover every part of their body head to toe there is still rape. Sometimes that rape isn’t recognised but it still happens.

Never heard that before.

It's just pathetically useless.

In the analogy it's female lions not meat.
Men don't attack women because they will starve if they don't.. eat them?

A female lion would also presumably eat the meat in front of them

I don't know if male lions rape female lions or indeed whether they eat them

Meat is just meat. It doesn't have an age or a sex. So the meat could the the man's daughter, sister, brother etc? Um.

However.

This is a standard view isn't it?

If you Go out dressed like that what do you expect/ asking for it / go back with a man/ walk by yourself after dark...

Societies all over the place don't actually believe all men are rapists and all women and girls are walking prey.

BUT that is the common accepted view. Because it excuses the man and blames the victim for not being careful when there's lions about.

And Feminists get called man haters

In countries where lions aren't native, they're caged for everyone's protection and if one breaks out, they are hunted down and tranquillised while people are warned to stay inside.

In countries where lions are native, it's wise be armed for protection.

Is this analogy really what those using it think of men? I don't!