"No debate" - a TV producer's perspective

[NecessaryScene]

In 2018, Channel 4 aired a documentary called Trans Kids: It's Time to Talk, hosted by Stella O'Malley (who now co-hosts the Gender: A Wider Lens podcast).

This was one of the first serious looks at the issue of childhood transition on mainstream TV, and was filmed around the time of the GRA reform battle.

For its producer, Olly Lambert, an experienced TV documentary maker, but new to this particular "debate", it was an eye-opening experience to try to deal with the pro-gender side.

Here's Posie Parker's description:

In 2018 Venice Allan and I, with the fabulous support of Julie Burchill, organised a talk called “Woke News”. We wanted to explore the silencing and policing of journalists and filmmakers concerning trans issues. One of the panellists was the fantastic documentary filmmaker, Olly Lambert. He described his experience of making the groundbreaking documentary “Trans kids - its time to talk”. His account is as horrifying as hilarious.

I previously linked to this talk over on the Maya-on-Radio-5-Live thread, but a few people thought it was worth its own thread.

At some point this stonewalling of discussion needs to become the story.

Original documentary on Channel 4
Archive copy of documentary

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It seems ironic watching this video and seeing the condemnation here because these very tactics of cancel culture were lifted directly from the world of radical feminism.

aye right

Julie Bindel has shared a platform with Jane Fae on a number of occasions, and debated MRAs like Milo Yiannopoulos

Germaine Greer debated with Norman Mailer (town bloody hall).

Feminists have a long and proud history of showing up and debating

I don’t describe myself as a radical feminist.
If you met me ‘radical’ would probably not be on your words to describe me.
But I am grateful that some women are and that they are willing to debate important issues.

@PamDenick

I don’t describe myself as a radical feminist. If you met me ‘radical’ would probably not be on your words to describe me. But I am grateful that some women are and that they are willing to debate important issues.

This issue is when a debate becomes an ideology that cannot be challenged as trans rights have.

Yes. We agree. TRAs aren’t willing to engage in any meaningful debate.

As exposed by Ollie.

Place marking to watch later

@PamDenick

Yes. We agree. TRAs aren’t willing to engage in any meaningful debate.

As exposed by Ollie.

yes indeed

and feminists are generally very happy to debate. not all of them cos they're not the borg

but if you want to find an influential feminist to speak to a C4 documentary, it would be very, very easy

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg Universities, Twitter, TV debates etc would all tend to disagree with you when it comes to radical feminists and the far left.

well they should call Julie Bindel then @CBUK22

she's always up for a good chin wag with a nutter

radical feminists and the far left

Far left, sure, there's been lots of this no-platform loopery from nutters calling themselves "left".

But "radical feminists"? I can't think of any. Give me an example.

@PamDenick

I don’t describe myself as a radical feminist. If you met me ‘radical’ would probably not be on your words to describe me. But I am grateful that some women are and that they are willing to debate important issues.

Have a Google of radical feminism - it probably doesn't quite mean what you think! (Meant non-patronisingly - not that long ago I didn't know and found it interesting)

@NecessaryScene - University is the spiritual home of Cancel Culture, you'll struggle to find anyone running a student union who doesn't identify as a feminist.

Off the top of my head, the dreadful Kate Smurthwaite was cancelled by feminists at Goldsmiths for her views on prostitution.

Off the top of my head, the dreadful Kate Smurthwaite was cancelled by feminists at Goldsmiths for her views on prostitution.

Right, I looked that one up, and seems that she held the radical feminist position and was cancelled on that basis.

We're looking for radical feminists doing the cancelling to support your thesis.

PS "Feminists" is not sufficient - you said "radical feminists".

I'm sure those calling themselves liberal feminists will happily cancel people, cos their arguments are of a similar quality and substance to TRAs.

Really interesting. I started a thread on this board about Jessica Alves and the womb implant. It attracted one particularly bloody minded TRA. A similar thread is now in AIBU, but the TRAs as yet are nowhere to be seen. Its almost like they don't want to repeat their arguments out in the open. Hmmmmm.

@NecessaryScene I guess that depends on whether you class KS or the student body as the radical ones. I'd say both positions are fairly far from the generally well meaning position of most who identify as feminist.

It's bizarre that liberal groups such as these demand diversity in everything but opinion.

I guess that depends on whether you class KS or the student body as the radical ones.

The "radical" in "radical feminist" does not mean "extreme". It's a specific branch of feminism. If you just meant "extreme", then we were talking at cross-purposes.

From the policies spoken about in that article, it's clear that the students doing the cancelling were not radical feminists, they were liberal feminists, objecting to what they perceived as KS's radfem views - although she seemed to issue a partial denial.

I'm also not sure anything there was really extreme - apart from the cancelling itself.

It's bizarre that liberal groups such as these demand diversity in everything but opinion.

Indeed. They're certainly not liberal.

Just followed Kate Smurthwaite on twitter on the basis of this thread and that NS link.