Article on a transman who gave birth to a child

[EdinburghFeminist]

The comments are heartening
www.facebook.com/1413882405514295/posts/3047049288864257/?d=n

They are!

Definitely!

"gender free parenting"
Now I actually agree with that 100%.

I'm not going to to say "you have a penis therefore xyz" or "you have a vagina therefore xyz"
*Some ideas.
Penis havers are good at science but lack emotional intelligence therefore can't help themselves when it comes to violence or porn sex. Vagina havers are submissive, there to look nice but be bad at the science, are care givers, are responsible for men's actions etc etc.

These are NOT my ideas of course they are forced upon us by a society that benefits men from these ideas.
I do not agree to those gendered concepts. This is the core foundation of feminism.

I also do not agree with gaslighting a child that they can ever "choose" their SEX which is what this is about. You can't choose your sex. You can't choose your socialisation.

There's so much wrong in that article. Keeping the sex of a child secret? Ok, you can only do that in reality by choosing a completely gender neutral name and using they/them pronouns at all times which is really a massive amount of mental energy and time invested in an ideology which serves no purpose.

Also, if you gave birth to a child you bloody well ain't their "dad".

They are a young parent and from what I can gather, they’ve just had a premature baby and are doing their best to be a good parent whilst carrying a lot of personal baggage. On their Instagram, they’re breast feeding and I was relieved to see that they hadn’t had a double mastectomy before having their babies. That’s something.

How they raise their child will ostensibly be similar to how most feminists and gender non-conforming parents have raised their children. It’s just that they seem to make such a bloody big deal of talking about this state of ‘gender’ that sits on top of ‘sex’. They get bogged down in proclaiming they’re not going to let other people know the ‘sex’ of the child and then conflate it in the next breath with not telling their child what ‘gender’ they are. It’s so muddled. Just let your child express themselves and play with all sorts of toys - fine. But don’t get all precious about it and think there is anything radical about this - it’s how we should be raising our children. Don’t box them in with ridiculous gender stereotypes - but FGS let them know their sex.

I was also relieved that they’re letting their kids call them Mapa. This gives them a chance to call them ‘Ma’ which hopefully they wouldn’t correct. This is the part that makes me uncomfortable when they tell their child that they are their ‘father’. Although in this case are they going to say they are both mother and father? This is when it gets awkward for the kids. I know there are all sorts of family set ups but telling the child that you carried and gave birth to that they are their father is a total headfuck.

I hope this parent doesn’t go for a double mastectomy. The older child will have seen the baby being fed and for them to remove that part of the anatomy would be quite disturbing for a child to process. Of course if a mother has cancer and this happens there will also be delicate conversations but at least you can say it’s saved your life. I know some transmen and non-binary people say their ‘top surgeries’ are ‘lifesaving’ but they’re not really are they? It’s a decision or a preference or a symptom of total loathing of their female body parts. That’s not so easy to explain to a child and sets up the great option of surgically removing or altering anything that bothers you about your body. And that’s surely not a healthy life-lesson?

I don’t condone anyone being nasty about this young person. They will be experiencing all the things that many of us women on here are familiar with - the exhaustion, the soreness, the bleeding, the anxiety, the stretch marks, the aftermath of that most female of experiences. They may not want to accept this aspect of themselves but I can not deny it.

I wish them well in their parenting journey.

That is just someone who thinks they are special and wants to draw attention to how special their children are too.

I don't understand how someone who says they 'feel' like a man and has dysphoria can stand to have sex like a woman, then spend 9 months doing the most female possible thing of being pregnant.

Maybe they were driven to it by some sort of maternal feeling that was stronger than the pain of the dysphoria. Is there a name for people who have strong maternal feelings?

00:08 newstart1337.

Gender dysphoria isn't a prerequisite for being trans. It's very "cool" and fashionable these days for young female-born-people, you get a lot of attention on social media and even mainstream news if you identify as a man and give birth.
Young people nowadays identify as a man in the morning and a woman in the afternoon. It does provide the individual a lot of attention...

If "he" was pregnant and gave birth then he's a woman. He can call himself a unicorn if he likes, but he's a woman. Men cant give birth.
The baby will be male if it has a penis, female if it doesn't.

Woman gives birth to a child. I bet Mumsnet readers have never heard of that before …

Meh "transman" gives birth big whoop I'm still waiting for the stories of all the "transmen" winning men's Olympic medals & running Fortune 500 companies....

"Gender dysphoria isn't a prerequisite for being trans. It's very "cool" and fashionable these days for young female-born-people"

Well that makes sense. But if Trans people dont have GD then why is suicidal ideation so high amongst that group. Either then dont have GD and are mentally healthy or they do and have mental health concerns?

Once again the only way trans men get in to the media is by giving birth.

I wonder why 🤔

suicidal ideation so high amongst that group.

A lot to unpick; it's false data.

Depression and anxiety are high not due to gd; gd frequently develops due to a large range of comorbid mental health difficulties, trauma, abuse, autism, bullying, homophobic bullying.

There's also evidence that suicidal ideation does not change or even increases after transistion.

The big scandinavian cohort study (the most reliable data there is I think) did find a huge increase in suicide post transition (adults) which suggests that transitioning does not solve the issues they have and a reason why 'suicide' should not be used as a justification for transitioning children.

But the use of suicide to justify socially transitioning small children is completely at odds with the claim it is not a safeguarding or mental health issue.

The great news is the comments are so down to earth. Practically nobody accepting that she's not the birth mother. Maybe people are finally copping on to this nonsense and attention seeking.

But the use of suicide to justify socially transitioning small children is completely at odds with the claim it is not a safeguarding or mental health issue.

Indeed. File under "Claims by TRAs that make no sense whatsoever." It's a long list.

I wonder in what sense this person can be considered a man? If they have female anatomy, and then use that female anatomy to do uniquely female things (get pregnant, give birth, breastfeed), how can they be said to be "identifying" as a man? What is it about them that is manly?

@Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons

Meh "transman" gives birth big whoop I'm still waiting for the stories of all the "transmen" winning men's Olympic medals & running Fortune 500 companies....

Yes this!

Apropos of nothing, but it looks to me as if many women-bodied people think that to have a life other than as a Stepford wife or a Barbie doll or a porn object one must transition.

If this is correct what a sad statement about these times. Old time feminism was trying to argue that one's body should not stop one from being a full human being, from having dreams and adventures not necessarily gender-conforming (how I hate that term), and to limit the effect of biological sex to those few areas of life where it matters.

It tickles me that non-binary or trans parents invented or use the term "theybe" for a child being raised gender-free when the gender-neutral word baby was there all along. Not special and different enough, I guess.

I recognise that loads of parents seek to raise their children in gender-neutral ways, eschewing stereotypical clothing, expectations and activities. Lots of schools work hard at this, too. It's pretty much how every child was raised in the '70s. A child didn't have to be kept in ignorance of what sex they were, just given the freedom to follow their fascinations and the opportunities to develop their talents and skills without being forced into gendered silos.

But if Trans people dont have GD then why is suicidal ideation so high amongst that group. Either then dont have GD and are mentally healthy or they do and have mental health concerns?

Ok this is going to be rather blunt/frank. Hope the "trigger warning" doesn't lead to a deletion.

Men with AGP are in the "trans people" group. They don't feel suicidal about their gender dysphoria, they actually get extremely excited about it, and design a lot of their life around their fetish which involves, breaking women's boundaries etc. Definitely not suicidal about it. Rather enjoy it in fact. Lots of (disturbing) evidence for this which includes details such as spunk on your women's changing room floor.

Wrt transmen, well you go online - gender ideologists tend to live a lot online, you get a script that tells you what to say to the medical healthcare practitioner in order to get your prescription for T. Part of the script is "if you don't give me what I want right now I'll kill myself'.
The script feeds back into the "community" so if you don't feel suicidal or say you feel suicidal, you're not properly trans.

Also for want of a better word but young "misfits" (I'm excluding AGP males from this cohort) who already feel depressed and wrong in someway look for an explanation and ""being trans" seems to provide a superficial answer.

A better question for this cohort would be why does gender ideology attract so many depressed vulnerable and suicidal young adults?
I remember "goths" as I was one of them.

Goths were self harming, anorexic, suicidal. It wasn't because heavy metal and black lipstick makes people suicidal, it's that damaged people, attention seeking people, suicidal people were attracted to the sub culture.

So there is a massive Venn diagram which we are not allowed to talk about with regards to trans, suicidal myth/ideation it is frankly a minefield.

Thank you Mumsnet for holding this conversation.

GNCQ and this could also explain any corrolation observed in the study present by the scot gov in their school guidance - parents of trans adults aged 16 to 24 may not be 'fully supportive' because they see their mentally unwell suicidal children drawn into a culture than is likely to cause further harms.