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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

My University using an unusual definition of 'Sex'

42 replies

JustCleaningtheBBQ · 16/08/2021 10:41

I work for a University and they have recently introduced an Equality Impact form to asses the impact of any policies or procedures that we introduce on the 9 protected characteristics in the EA. In the form they state that "The Equality Act 2010 is the source of our definitions".

Their definition for 'sex' was interesting:
Sex
This is defined as a person’s legal sex, in the UK this is recognised as either being a man or a woman. Sex is more commonly referred to as gender identity, which is the internal sense of being male, female, a combination of male and female, or neither male or female

I have had a look and I can't see any of what they have stated in the second sentence above in the EA? This is not right at all is it?

OP posts:
Tibtom · 16/08/2021 10:45

Not it is not right. Sex is defined in the Equality Act as male or female, and woman is described as a female of any age. It doesn't define female but I guess noone even thought that would necessary. However words in an act that are undefined are given their ordinary meaning at the time of draughting.

MonsignorMirth · 16/08/2021 10:48

Conflating sex and gender identity is surely transphobic? If they're actually asking for gender identity they need to say so.

Tibtom · 16/08/2021 10:48

Gender identity is not mentioned at all

Nothapppy · 16/08/2021 10:48

Fucking hell. Very deliberate lying, surely.

EarthSight · 16/08/2021 10:49

Sex is more commonly referred to as gender identity, which is the internal sense of being male, female, a combination of male and female, or neither male or female

They need legal advice as there is so much wrong with this clueless statement. Sex and gender identity are not the same thing at all.

Jaysmith71 · 16/08/2021 10:49

More commonly referred to as gender identity by who? Biologists? Philosophers? Sociologists?

....Ooooh look, we're a university: Let's ask....

Nothapppy · 16/08/2021 10:49

You should query this with their legal team or, if none, their HR team.

AlexaShutUp · 16/08/2021 10:51

That's really fucked up. But as they have acknowledged that sex is recognised as either man or woman, where do they think that leaves non-binary people if sex and gender identity are conflated. Makes no sense at all.

RedDogsBeg · 16/08/2021 10:51

It is wrong.

and this:

Sex is more commonly referred to as gender identity, which is the internal sense of being male, female, a combination of male and female, or neither male or female

is a complete load of nonsense which they have just made up. Nowhere in the EQA does it say this. Furthermore with this pile of claptrap they have fallen foul of the rulings in Maya's case.

AssassinatedBeauty · 16/08/2021 10:52

Someone who is hook line and sinker into current gender ideology has added that last sentence in an attempt to muddy the waters around the concept of sex. Sex is not more commonly referred to as gender identity, that's absurd wishful thinking on their behalf. Your legal sex is the sex given on your birth certificate, or on your GRC if you have one. That's all they need to ask for. They can ask separately about gender reassignment if they want to collect information about that.

Helleofabore · 16/08/2021 11:02

I'd be asking why they have misinterpreted the EA, either by striving for inclusiveness or deliberately, and have subsequently redefined sex as a protected category.

FindTheTruth · 16/08/2021 11:18

Equality Act 2010
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/our-work/blogs/freedom-hold-belief-something-we-all-need-protect
"This week, the Employment Appeal Tribunal has ruled that the philosophical belief, that sex is biologically determined and cannot be changed, is protected by law."

YetAnotherSpartacus · 16/08/2021 11:25

I read it as 'hey we have a good grounding on biological reality, shame about the popular discourse which sees it as about woo, but we think differently.

Is my glass too full of hope?

ValancyRedfern · 16/08/2021 11:29

That is complete made up nonsense. Please complain (anonymously if necessary)

Lessthanaballpark · 16/08/2021 11:37

Tell them to send their definition of sex to the Taliban and maybe they’ll check with each person’s “internal sense” before deciding whether to put them in a burka or not.

hallouminatus · 16/08/2021 11:46

They just need to replace the words "is commonly referred to as" with "must not be confused with".

Datun · 16/08/2021 12:05

@FindTheTruth

Equality Act 2010 www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/our-work/blogs/freedom-hold-belief-something-we-all-need-protect
"This week, the Employment Appeal Tribunal has ruled that the philosophical belief, that sex is biologically determined and cannot be changed, is protected by law."

This.

We are bloody well having to go to court and finance these cases, over and over, to stop damaging ideological nonsense written into policy.

They are falling foul of discrimination law, whilst pretending to quote the equalities act.

WhereYouLeftIt · 16/08/2021 14:22

If they go ahead using that definition, at some point in the (near) future they are going to have their arses sued off them.

NewlyGranny · 16/08/2021 14:38

Nope. They've pulled that definition out of .... somewhere undisclosed.

If they're going to refer to the law, they need to use the wording of the law, not embellish it with unattributed and unapproved interpretations that muddy the water.

Do they have any idea how carefully laws are worded so that clever legal experts cannot pick holes in them?

NewlyGranny · 16/08/2021 14:40

Someone needs to point out that the university leadership is entitled to its own opinions, but not to its own law.

Artichokeleaves · 16/08/2021 14:43

They've just made that up. Worth pointing out to them; they may not believe in the Equality Act, but if someone sues them over sex discrimination, in court the Equality Act will certainly believe in them and they're going to be paying out.

FindTheTruth · 16/08/2021 14:49

OP ask the University to do an Equality Impact Assessments (EqIA) on their Equality Impact Assessments (EqIA) Form. by removing the protected characteristic of biological sex, they've had an impact on all policy using it.

CharlieParley · 16/08/2021 14:49

Sex
This is defined as a person’s legal sex, in the UK this is recognised as either being a man or a woman. Sex is more commonly referred to as gender identity, which is the internal sense of being male, female, a combination of male and female, or neither male or female

There is no reference to "legal sex" in the Equality Act 2010. There is also no reference to "legal sex" in the Explanatory Notes that accompany the Act.

A more correct definition would be to say:

This is defined as being a man or a woman. In UK law, a man is defined as a male of any age and a woman is defined as a female of any age.

(I'm not saying I'd necessarily write the definition like that, just keeping with your university's chosen style, JustCleaningtheBBQ)

RoyalCorgi · 16/08/2021 14:49

Sex is more commonly referred to as gender identity

No it isn't - that's just bollocks. Sex is more commonly referred to as sex. Who on earth are the morons writing this shit?

JustCleaningtheBBQ · 16/08/2021 14:50

Thanks all. I currently composing a reply from all of the points you have helpfully made. I have it all in my head, but find it hared to condense it in a well-worded response.

I know I will need to be careful in how I word it as there will not be a sympathetic response. I just emailed the person that send this document out for a link to the feedback form and her out of office states she is currently working on our Stonewall submission so may be slow to respond.

I somehow don't think I'm going to get anywhere, but worth a shot.

OP posts: