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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Maya on Radio 5 live this morning

78 replies

BoreOfWhabylon · 16/08/2021 09:39

Just announced she'll be interviewed by Naga Mumchetty after 10 am. Not sure when, as they'll be giving a lot of coverage to the Afghanistan situation.

Can't see another thread, sorry if I missed one.

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BaronessWrongCrowd · 16/08/2021 12:35

Have they read out any texts supportive of Maya?

Datun · 16/08/2021 12:36

She needs to be able to address those texts.

Jaysmith71 · 16/08/2021 12:37

@BaronessWrongCrowd

Have they read out any texts supportive of Maya?
None.

One neutral who wants to hear both sides. The rest hostile.

PronounssheRa · 16/08/2021 12:41

Is that the other side, texts sent in from randoms?

Maya is interviewed live, the other side snipe from the sidelines without having to answer any questions.

BaronessWrongCrowd · 16/08/2021 12:41

How very unexpected of the BBC Hmm.

Datun · 16/08/2021 12:47

@PronounssheRa

Is that the other side, texts sent in from randoms?

Maya is interviewed live, the other side snipe from the sidelines without having to answer any questions.

Exactly. It's pathetic.
BoreOfWhabylon · 16/08/2021 12:50

@PatsArrow

Who did they get? Please don't say Tatchell or even worse India Willoughby
No, a listener who is mother of a NB child.
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Jaysmith71 · 16/08/2021 12:50

Just two weeks since the BBC threatened to call the police on you if you expressed any 'hate.'

Datun · 16/08/2021 12:54

BoreOfWhabylon

PatsArrow
Who did they get? Please don't say Tatchell or even worse India Willoughby

No, a listener who is mother of a NB child.

Ffs. And you can bet your bloody life that not a single person listening to the program understands what non-binary is. Because saying the words I don't identify as a man or a woman is absolutely meaningless.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 16/08/2021 12:56

I know there are many people who simply will not expose themselves in the media, because they know their argument is so weak. But in that case, the media should be making a whole issue out of that.

I've written a version of the following in a thread about Scots Govt. response to an item but it holds here.

What an indirect light this shines on the upholders of this inchoate ideology's own acknowledgement of reality - that their justification needs misrepresentation and dishonesty to have any chance of succeeding. Allied to that, that it's necessary to introduce a broadening of the concept of 'hate crime' to suppress any objection made to this ideology and also debate in the public arena.

With apologies to Isaiah Berlin's Two Concepts of Liberty it is as if various bodies have determined that the ends for this topic have been agreed and all that remains to be determined are the precise forms of political engineering by which these ends are to be achieved (Oakeshott's "rationalism in politics").

The public is not to be allowed a voice in the necessary discussion about social and political order and how they intersect with what the nebulous authorities have decided we shall have in this Utopia.

This is dangerous and ignorant (Berlin described it as "surprising"). Berlin delivered his lecture in 1958 but we are still grappling with familiar manipulations and a lack of engagement with the general populace. We're currently watching parts of Europe burn, Afghanistan is a metaphorical tinder box, and much of the world is still grappling with a pandemic, and a major democratic govt. has not been able to deal with an assault on its Capitol.

Dangerous, because when ideas are neglected by those who ought to attend to them – that is to say, those who have been trained to think critically about ideas – they sometimes acquire an unchecked momentum and an irresistible power over multitudes of men that may grow too violent to be affected by rational criticism.

Robert Conquest's Reflections on a Ravaged Century (2000) elaborated on this danger when he named the phenomenon of mindslaughter - he described the destruction of intellect by ideas grown too violent to be affected by rational criticism

The BBC and MSM are facilitating this on various topics of interest to the public. It feels as if they are abusing powers in a way that resembles political systems they would otherwise deplore - and, here they are, actively misleading the public and refusing to be accountable for their misrepresentation.

For this thread - it feels as if the BBC is actively facilitating mindslaughter - and they and every MSM will continue to do so until they insist that there is coherent argument that is robust to factchecking.

Walkacrossthesand · 16/08/2021 13:06

I'm trying to access this on BBC sounds but it's not available - hope they haven't pulled it....

oldwomanwhoruns · 16/08/2021 13:20

I'm listening through the texts being read out (BBC sounds). God it's the usual rubbish!!

"...disappointed with 5 live giving such time to such a misunderstanding misinformation of the real spectrum of gender and the need for life-saving treatment... one of the most marginalised groups ever"

They should have given Maya the chance to answer each and every one of these 'points'.

And then more misinformation on the phone call ' ...misleading arguments talking about men using an excuse of being TW to enter female only spaces...'

Not the case. In the prisons judicial review, it was said that the figures show clearly that this is the case.

JoodyBlue · 16/08/2021 13:37

@Walkacrossthesand www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000yt3j

SmokedDuck · 16/08/2021 13:39

@Datun

Even shows that allow an exchange between guests often descend to a sort of shouting match or people talking aver one another.

Yes, I think you're right. It requires a seasoned professional, who is determined to remain neutral at all costs. Something, particularly when it comes to women's rights, that is hard to find.

And the moderator really needs to have done some significant preparation in order to moderate fairly and ask the right kinds of questions, and to respond to the exchange intelligently in real time.

It's not at all an easy task and really excellent interviewers and moderators are not easy to find - there have always been more who were only ok. But I can't say I hear as many good ones as I used to. I've wondered if that is because of changes in culture means people don't develop that capacity, or the broadcasters push their interviewers in a different direction, or they aren't hiring the right kind of people.

EmpressWitchDoesntBurn · 16/08/2021 13:43

When they were covering this on Women’s Hour a while ago, I remember Jane Garvey expressing her frustration that nobody on the other side was prepared to debate. They all insisted on having their say uninterrupted. I wonder why…

TedImgoingmad · 16/08/2021 18:24

Missed this, but it appears the gas lighting of the nation continues, courtesy of the BBC. 5Live is, and always has been, disgraceful on this topic. I hope everyone who sent in a supportive text complains to the BBC about the lack of balance in the texts read out.

PamDenick · 16/08/2021 18:28

I will be looking up mindslaughter… there seems to be a lot of it going around…

oldwomanwhoruns · 16/08/2021 18:40

Yup @TedImgoingmad, and the texts made such EASILY countered points, all silly and rubbish. But reading them all, one after the other, was a sort of gish-gallop, giving the impression of substance.

But I'm hesitating to actually complain... I don't want it being logged as a complaint that the program existed. At least they DID give Maya some airtime. I don't want someone just adding up the total no of complaints and saying 'x number of complaints about this program'

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/08/2021 19:09

Yup @TedImgoingmad, and the texts made such EASILY countered points, all silly and rubbish. But reading them all, one after the other, was a sort of gish-gallop, giving the impression of substance.

Indeed.

littlbrowndog · 16/08/2021 19:12

Such a good read. Don’t know where to put it. The baroness tweeted it

www.the11thhourblog.com/post/gender-identity-the-techno-medical-complex-and-twerking-men-in-monkey-suits

Jaysmith71 · 16/08/2021 19:12

I'd have faith in the 5Live audience. They heard a calm and measured, articulate woman speaking common sense, 'balanced' by the rantings of a load of gibbering fools.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/08/2021 19:18

I agree Jaysmith. The texts didn't address any of Maya's clearly laid out points, they were just the same old boring TRA talking points, as if people hadn't even listened to the programme before they fired them off.

DisappearingGirl · 16/08/2021 19:35

NecessaryScene I think that video of the Trans Kids filmmaker deserves its own thread! Absolutely fascinating!

PamDenick · 16/08/2021 21:13

Yes, thanks for linking to the documentary filmmaker. Watch to the end!

BoreOfWhabylon · 16/08/2021 21:38

[quote littlbrowndog]Such a good read. Don’t know where to put it. The baroness tweeted it

www.the11thhourblog.com/post/gender-identity-the-techno-medical-complex-and-twerking-men-in-monkey-suits[/quote]
Food for thought there @littlbrowndog

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