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How many Incel shootings have there actually been?
27

Lessthanaballpark · 14/08/2021 09:33

As in where the killer has openly professed to subscribe to Incel ideology or clearly cited a hatred of women in his manifesto / motives for killing.

I can think of Elliot Rodger and Mark Lepine.

And now Jake Davidson obviously.

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Lessthanaballpark · 14/08/2021 09:34

Sorry I said shootings but I mean physical attacks in general.

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Jaysmith71 · 14/08/2021 09:41

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SionnachRua · 14/08/2021 09:46

Nikolas Cruz and Alek Minassian. Both idolised Elliot Rodger.

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TheMissingMango · 14/08/2021 10:44

Alek Minassian, Toronto 2018

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KittenKong · 14/08/2021 11:35

I dont know their names. They don’t deserved to be named. There was the shooting in Montreal in the 80s (another one a few years back).

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YetAnotherSpartacus · 14/08/2021 11:44

There was the shooting in Montreal in the 80s (another one a few years back)

I'm not sure this was actually incel - I think it was pure misogyny.

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KittenKong · 14/08/2021 11:48

Not sure where the lines blend to be honest. Hatred of women turning to murder. At least the media is calling it what it is now.

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RVN123 · 14/08/2021 11:50

incels.wiki/w/Dylan_Klebold_and_Eric_Harris

There are some who suggest that the Columbine shootings were linked to Incel ideology, and a lot of subsequent shootings have found to be linked to Columbine in some way ie the perpetrator had studied the Columbine massacre in some way or read articles or books about it, or even mentioned Eric and Dylan in their writings.
I've just finished the Dave Cullen book on Columbine and Sue Kleibold's book about the shootings. Very interesting.

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YetAnotherSpartacus · 14/08/2021 11:51

Not sure where the lines blend to be honest. Hatred of women turning to murder. At least the media is calling it what it is now

I guess I see incel as about sex. I thought Montreal was more about women getting (places in engineering) what he thought he was entitled to.

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KittenKong · 14/08/2021 11:56

Entitlement.

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YetAnotherSpartacus · 14/08/2021 12:02

Oh absolutely. Entitlement, anger, hatred, jealously and not seeing women as fully human.

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GNCQ · 14/08/2021 12:12

Makes you remember the 2 women per week (UK) murdered by her male partner. Probably because he thinks she won't suck him off anymore. How dare she.

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GNCQ · 14/08/2021 12:13

Obviously the incel "movement" is rather more specific, but you wonder if it's actually lying there beneath 2 different men a week that you meet.

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SmokedDuck · 14/08/2021 14:02

@RVN123

incels.wiki/w/Dylan_Klebold_and_Eric_Harris

There are some who suggest that the Columbine shootings were linked to Incel ideology, and a lot of subsequent shootings have found to be linked to Columbine in some way ie the perpetrator had studied the Columbine massacre in some way or read articles or books about it, or even mentioned Eric and Dylan in their writings.
I've just finished the Dave Cullen book on Columbine and Sue Kleibold's book about the shootings. Very interesting.

I think this points to something quite different, which is that mass shootings, especially in the US, have attained a cultural reality that gives them a life of their own.

Just like, in certain times and places, lighting yourself on fire because a kind of trope of political protest. In the US, and increasingly elsewhere, if you have an existential beef, if you hate society, if your girlfriend dumps you and you want to show them all, the thing you do is perpetrate some kind of mass shooting.
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ScreamingMeMe · 14/08/2021 14:37

So that's at least 11?

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BrandineDelRoy · 14/08/2021 15:02

Has the Atlanta shooting spree been mentioned? It targeted Asian women. I think he blamed them for "tempting" him into sin. 🙄https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021Atlantaaspashootings

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BrandineDelRoy · 14/08/2021 15:45

This one targeting Amish girls was particularly heinous. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/WestNickellMinesSchoollshooting

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ViperHalliwell · 14/08/2021 17:45

KittenKong: I dont know their names. They don’t deserved to be named. Good point, especially as glorification of the men who do this seems to be an incentive, and they do seem to be lauded in the, er, "incel community".

However, there’s a lot of use of the names of prior perpetrators - people using the names as pseudonyms or usernames online, expressions like “doing a Sodini” or “going ER”, references to “the Supreme Gentleman” (as Rodger, the Alta Vista killer, called himself), or cryptic posts like “(killer’s name) was right!” or references to wanting to emulate or honour or commemorate a particular killer. These are red flags which may be missed if people don’t know the names and histories.

I'd add these ones to the list:

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania USA, 2009: a man shot three women, injured nine, and then fatally shot himself at an LA Fitness studio. Police investigation discovered his active online blog (not using his real name) ranting about women being disinterested/refusing relationships with him, alternating between being angry at all women because women wouldn’t date/sleep with him and being angry that no one would tell him why. His suicide note covered the same themes.

Hanau, Germany, 2020. The gunman behind two mass shootings left a manifesto which included violent misogyny and themes similar to extreme inceldom, but authorities were never able to establish that he had contact with any group, even via online forums, etc. In a bit of a departure, he blamed the German government for his involuntary celibacy.

There are also cases where the shooter was involved in incel groups and forums and had posted that type of content online and cited being inspired by previous killers recognised as being driven by incel ideology, but didn’t specifically attack random women or clearly state that as a motive for the specific attack - for example the Marjorie Stoneham Douglas high school shootings in Parkland, Florida, USA in 2018. And in the Aztec High School shooting ( Aztec, New Mexico, USA, 2017 ), where a former student killed two people plus himself, he had been posting online as “Elliot Rodger”, similar content.

I also wonder how much it makes sense to separate out different types of male-against-female murder in our heads and in the media, in policy and in law. I've been paying attention to the femicide epidemic in Mexico, and recently also read Argentine journalist Selva Almada's Dead Girls, and I think the murder of women takes many forms, but is all of a piece. Almada recalled the absolute no-probs attitude to the murder of women and girls in Argentina in the 1980s, when she was a teenager. For the cases she discusses in detail, yeah, the perp was mad at one woman, targeted one woman - but is there a big difference between "I am mad cos no woman will have sex with me" vs "I am mad because THIS woman will not have sex with me" vs "I am mad cos this woman used to have sex with me and now refuses" vs. "I want to have sex so I found a woman and she resisted so I killed her"?

I don't think there's that much difference.

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KittenKong · 14/08/2021 17:49

Do they mostly kill themselves too? That seems to be the pattern.

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MrsTerryPratchett · 14/08/2021 18:39

I'm not sure this was actually incel - I think it was pure misogyny.

Misogynistic serial killings have been a feature for centuries at least. Often with prostitutes as the targets.

Incel is just the new, repulsive face of it. With recruiting.

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secular111 · 15/08/2021 10:31

I don't have a share token as DH gave up his Times subscription last month and now spends the money on substack.

Published this morning;

Plymouth shooting: thousands of boys drawn to ‘incel’ sites urging them to kill women

The first few paragraphs that are readable included;

New figures reveal that three of the biggest forums frequented by those who support the woman-hating ideology are pulling in half a million clicks from UK visitors each month.

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Lessthanaballpark · 15/08/2021 21:10

Plymouth shooting: thousands of boys drawn to ‘incel’ sites urging them to kill women

Just reading that headline is terrifying. Which is the intended effect.
Women know that it's out there, that there's an ever-increasing group of men who want to kill them and will just feel a bit more afraid in their daily lives. The intended effect.

Better be nice to all the men in our lives, just in case.

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user1493889010 · 17/08/2021 13:03

14 terror attacks that can be linked now there may be more. The last was 6 days before Plymouth in Tokyo.

Please sign this petition to recognise Incels as a terrorist hate group:

www.change.org/p/uk-government-recognise-incels-as-a-terrorist-hate-group-uk

As most people are aware by now, on the 12th August 2021 a man in Plymouth shot and killed six innocent people. This man was associated with the Incel 'movement.'

Incel stands for 'involuntarily celibate,' which on the surface seems harmless, if a little absurd. However, the men taking part express misogyny and an unfulfilled sense of entitlement to sex that they believe women are withholding from them.

Some Incels advocate violence against women and the men who are in relationships with them. They demonise women, dehumanise them, and advocate violence because of the perceived 'wrongs' of not being granted sexual access to women.

Legally, to be defined as a terrorist attack, it has to be considered ideological, religious, or political in motivation. This extreme form of hatred against women is ideological and the intentional use of violence to intimidate is characteristic of all terrorist groups.

Incels on these forums “are now celebrating this act describing the murderer as a hero, hoping these victims suffered and crucially talking about carrying out more acts of violence. If this had been any other form of extremism…would those websites still be up and easily accessible?” (Laura Bates 16.08.21)

The Plymouth attack was not the first terrorist attack linked to Incel groups and online misogyny. There have been 14 worldwide since since 2009. In Pittsburg in 2009 a man walked into an LA fitness and started firing bullets into a group of women taking an aerobics class because women wouldn’t give him sex. He was directly linked to Incel groups.

In 2014 a man associated with Incel groups stabbed three women to death in Portsmouth, England because women didn’t give men like him a chance.

The same year the Isla Vista killings were a series of terror attacks in California by a man well-known within the Incel movement who killed six people and injured fourteen others – by gunshot, stabbing and vehicle ramming – near the campus of the University of California, Santa Barbara.

In 2018 , a man in Toronto after being radicalised online by Incel forums, took it upon himself to drive a van down two kilometres of pavement, killing ten people and injuring many more.

Only six days before the Plymouth attack in Tokyo on 6th August 2021 a man stabbed ten people on a train because he saw women ‘happy’ and wanted to kill them because he was angry he had suffered rejection in relationships.

The media has consistently failed to report the motivations of such attacks unlike other types of terrorism referring to the men who commit them simply as ‘lone-wolves’ or mentally ill.

This means we don’t view it as terrorism because it’s not described as such in the media, we don’t use words like radicalisation or link the attacks to these online hate groups.

Few links are drawn between the attackers or the ideologies they adhere to. Despite the fact most of the terrorists drew links themselves! Most left ‘manifestos’ or suicide notes explaining their motivations and links. Many of them ‘hailed’ the Incel terrorists that went before them and all either explicitly explained their motivations as a hatred of women or were active members of online misogynistic groups.

It's not a movement. It's terrorism. We, the undersigned, want it to stop, and are therefore petitioning the UK government to recognise any self-affirmed Incels as terrorists, or members of a hate group. We do not need another terror attack and more innocent lives lost before the government legislate to class the Incel movement as a terrorist ideology.

So like with all terrorist organisations the government can implement counterterrorism measures such as: keeping a record of individuals and organisations involved in terrorist activities, monitoring those who pose a potential threat and taking down websites that call for violence to prevent any horror like this happening again!

More information can be found below:



www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58207064.amp
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/men-who-hate-women-laura-bates-book-review-misogyny-b421909.html%3famp
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