Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Queer theory and bestiality: LGBTQ…Z?

67 replies

RoyalCorgi · 12/08/2021 10:01

I just came across this on Twitter - though it seems to have been originally published in print in 2012.

www.cambridge.org/core/journals/hypatia/article/abs/lgbtqz/85A2B98B6708318C7C7DAAE40D15D4C9#

I can't work out from the abstract what it's arguing, but perhaps someone else will have better luck.

OP posts:
Shedbuilder · 12/08/2021 12:50

@Jaysmith71

The love that dare not squeak its name?
Grin
Chickenyhead · 12/08/2021 12:52

Feel sick......

🤮

Poor dog.

ArabellaScott · 12/08/2021 12:55

JFC.

Happy to swerve violently from whatever the fuck the mad professor is proposing right onto time travelling whales. Yep. Let's stick with that.

BettyFilous · 12/08/2021 12:57

Desperate to know more about the time-travelling whales.

Me too. Have the whales all fucked off to 10,000 years ago before humans got so noisy and started hunting them? Are we actually facing species extinction events, or is it temporal shifting? 🤔

ArabellaScott · 12/08/2021 12:58

Don't mention Moby Dick. Don't mention Moby D ...

Shedbuilder · 12/08/2021 13:01

So feminism is about the whole world, including the natural world and animals, and not really about women...

InspiralCoalescenceRingdown · 12/08/2021 13:07

@Shedbuilder

So feminism is about the whole world, including the natural world and animals, and not really about women...
I've heard "feminism is for everyone", I've not heard "feminism is for everything" until now.
SmokedDuck · 12/08/2021 13:16

Sometimes this kind of academic stuff is serious, in the sense of being a serious thought experiment, but not necessarily meant to be translated into action. You see papers like that in philosophy fairly often and unless they are a controversial topic that puts them in the public eye they don't cause a stir.

Though one of the things that seems particular to queer theory and gender studies is that they actually want this stuff instantiated in the real world.

As far as I know this kind of thinking is not new within queer theory, but I do think that it's likely that as long as queer theory continues to make inroads into mainstream thought it will become more mainstream as well.

There was an article at Unheard a few weeks ago arguing the idea that our concept of consent being the reason that bestiality is wrong doesn't hold much water, at least for those of us who aren't ethical vegans. It could have been quite interesting because it brought out a real contradiction and questions about consent as an adequate framework for sexual morality, but it kind of fell flat, mainly because Chivers, the author, is not one of their stronger writers and tends to be a shallow thinker generally He was on to something with his observation but couldn't carry the question any further - like, maybe there are things besides consent involved in sexual ethics which is where the article could have been quite interesting.

But the fact that he thought it, and wrote it, in a fairly well-read platform, suggests to me that the whole idea of bestiality being ok is floating around in the air at the moment. The intellectual environment, at least among a certain sector of society, is just right to nurture those kinds of ideas. Maybe in large part because for many people, consent is the only measure they have for sexual ethics, the same reason they can't see what is fundamentally problematic about porn or prostitution.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 12/08/2021 13:35

It is so sad that Hypatia has jumped the shark. It once used to be a fantastic journal with really relevant articles.

TheSockMonster · 12/08/2021 13:43

I’ve just had a closer look at the link I posted, and I can see her whole LGBTQ…Z paper is there.

It was an interesting read.

My summary is:

  1. Queer theory says sex and sexuality are incapable of definition, therefore snuggling your dog on the sofa is a legitimate sexual experience, therefore sex with animals is potentially fine
  1. Defining things based on physical reality is like totally 20th century; gender identity is not fixed, racial identity is not fixed Hmm, therefore identifying ourselves (and our dogs) as strictly human or animal is so passé

If I’d submitted her paper as an essay when I was a student it would have come back with ‘tautological’ and ‘unsubstantiated’ scrawled all over it. Plus a follow up phone call from student support, I expect…

Queer theory and bestiality: LGBTQ…Z?
Artichokeleaves · 12/08/2021 14:05

Queer theory = No one gets to say no to me. Boundaries are things I have as I want, but everyone else's are (insert much pseudo intellectual babble here borrowed randomly from French revolution, feminist theory, Marxist bits and anything else that sounds good) because they say no to me.

Essentially stuck toddler thinking. With same enjoyment of breaking stuff.

Tibtom · 12/08/2021 16:18

Aren't we all time travellers? In that we are all travelling through time together at a consistent speed that we have no control over?

(Misses the point...)

InspiralCoalescenceRingdown · 12/08/2021 16:26

I’ve just had a closer look at the link I posted, and I can see her whole LGBTQ…Z paper is there.

I couldn't get all the way through it, but I did see this. I stand by my original translation.

Queer theory and bestiality: LGBTQ…Z?
Mochudubh · 12/08/2021 16:38

@GingerAndTheBiscuits

Time travelling whales is surely a Hitchhikers Guide reference?!
In one of the original Star Treck films (The Voyage Home IIRC) the crew of the Enterprise travel back to the 20th Century to save 2 whales and bring them to the future as whales have become extinct.

It also features Chekov asking where they keep the nuclear wessels and Scottie inventing transparent Aloominum.

Imnobody4 · 12/08/2021 16:46

blog.simplejustice.us/2021/08/11/short-take-queer-theory-at-its-logical-extreme/
Considers this paper. Personally I think it's just moral relativism as well as Queer Theory/ Postmodernism taken to extremes. I remember feminists supporting FGM because it's 'culture' therefore beyond criticism.

Although I can't help feeling its a fake paper by Helen Pluckrose et al.

The paper that was published inGender, Place and Cultureseems downright silly. “Human Reaction to Rape Culture and Queer Performativity at Urban Dog Parks in Portland, Oregon” claims to be based on in situ observation of canine rape culture in a Portland dog park. “Do dogs suffer oppression based upon (perceived) gender?” the paper asks.

viques · 12/08/2021 17:02

@Shedbuilder

So feminism is about the whole world, including the natural world and animals, and not really about women...
Apparently so, it seems us women are now the ones solely responsible for clearing up the entire planet and being kind to every living creature because that is what feminism means. As they say, women’s work is never done. If only someone had warned us this is what it would end up as when we took those damn pointy bras off and tentatively asked if we could be paid fairly.........
Tanith · 12/08/2021 19:02

Is it normal or bigoted to want to vomit? 🤮

TheSockMonster · 12/08/2021 19:26

@Tanith

Is it normal or bigoted to want to vomit? 🤮
Vomiting is acceptable. However, if you want to truly signal your woke rejection of the human/animal binary you’re going to have to eat it afterwards (or that’s what my dog does anyway)
SmokedDuck · 12/08/2021 20:35

@TheSockMonster

I’ve just had a closer look at the link I posted, and I can see her whole LGBTQ…Z paper is there.

It was an interesting read.

My summary is:

  1. Queer theory says sex and sexuality are incapable of definition, therefore snuggling your dog on the sofa is a legitimate sexual experience, therefore sex with animals is potentially fine
  1. Defining things based on physical reality is like totally 20th century; gender identity is not fixed, racial identity is not fixed Hmm, therefore identifying ourselves (and our dogs) as strictly human or animal is so passé

If I’d submitted her paper as an essay when I was a student it would have come back with ‘tautological’ and ‘unsubstantiated’ scrawled all over it. Plus a follow up phone call from student support, I expect…

I agree there is this element where even things we would normally consider non-sexual are being shoe-horned into some kind of sexual interpretation in a lot of these discussions. It maybe reflects the tendency in modern culture to bring all relationship back to sex. You can't have friendship, or a parental/child relationship, in literature for example, without them somehow being related back to some sort of fundamentally sexual impulse.

In general in our culture we seem to have a hard time thinking of a romantic or marriage type relationship as something different from friendship, and that can exist wholly separately from friendship. So the latter almost gets interpreted as an incomplete kind of sexual intimacy.

Tanith · 12/08/2021 21:44

Just when I thought I couldn’t feel more nauseous! 🤮🤮

I have cats, Sockmonster. They just chew grass and throw up.

My God - this is an academic teaching this stuff to students?! 🤢

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 12/08/2021 21:49

I can't help feeling its a fake paper by Helen Pluckrose

I thought that - but is it barking enough? (Sorry - somebody had to).

Ekofisk · 12/08/2021 21:53

Does this mean that Eric Gill was an innovator of Queer Theory?

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 12/08/2021 22:35

@Ekofisk

Does this mean that Eric Gill was an innovator of Queer Theory?
It's doubtless been a common defence in baaaaad advocacy down through centuries of legal appeals.
Guineapigbridge · 12/08/2021 22:44

Queer theory= if it moves I can shag it and you can't question me.

CharlesDickensHairyBalls · 13/08/2021 01:14

I was so appalled by this that I read the whole thing. On my reader this essay is 16 pages long - although that will include title and bibliography pages. The word "consent" appears three times. THREE TIMES. And of course only three because animals cannot consent to interspecies sexual activity and THERE is a sentence I never thought I would have to type out.

I don't care how else you rationalise or problematise it: your pets cannot consent, don't have sex with them, not everyone is okay with everything you think.

Swipe left for the next trending thread