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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Articles in Country Squire magazine including Pick your Pronouns Wisely

48 replies

ChristinaXYZ · 10/08/2021 14:07

I enjoyed Effie Deans' Pick Your Pronouns Wisely

"Other possibilities might involve using Polish words such as Zólc and Zdzblo or alternatively I could insist that everyone addresses me with Russian pronouns and uses them correctly in each grammatical case."

countrysquire.co.uk/2021/08/02/pick-your-pronouns-wisely

And also this piece on the culture wars more broadly and using the concept of universalism against identity politics

"Because the smears are indelible. Once accused, you can’t escape the taint. You might argue for what you consider to be reasoned, liberal, humanistic beliefs, but there’s one problem with that. We don’t live in a reasoned, liberal, humanistic age any more. The woke – especially the young woke – have hardly ever heard of it. They think what you believe in is a smokescreen for intolerance.

What can be done? The answer is obvious. We need to ditch the long-winded waffle about Enlightenment values and Dr Martin Luther King and all that. And to do it we need to take a tip from the world of advertising. Because those canny advertising guys, the smartest operators in the world, know one thing, which is this: every product needs brand recognition. Or, to put it simply, a name."

countrysquire.co.uk/2021/08/10/we-cant-win-without-a-name/

OP posts:
Shedbuilder · 11/08/2021 13:20

Yup, I read something — possibly here — about how to get into any American university students had to demonstrate how woke they were. Yes, they had to have done voluntary work, participated in community events, play an instrument, excel at a sport etc, but they also have to write applications that express their passion for social justice and diversity. Declaring themselves trans or non-binary or an ally of TQ+ and BLM is becoming a standard way of letting the institution know that they're lefty, middle-class young people who will fit in. Adopting pronouns is all part of the game.

WhoNeedsaManOfTheWorld · 11/08/2021 13:31

I might go for per/pee given how many times I need the loo

GreenAndPurplePeople · 11/08/2021 18:15

@Shedbuilder

I'm not a fan of GC - because of the negative connotations of "critical". I think Lit makes a really attractive alternative, and a fantastic brand. Great idea.

It's also short for Literal. i.e. I'm a literal woman, as opposed to a figurative one.

Can we start using it now?

ChristinaXYZ · 11/08/2021 20:31

I quite like Lit as it is how I feel - lit up and fizzing with anger. However I think I prefer @JellySlice 's idea of Realist. It doesn't sound like it is trying to be clever, and is understandable by anyone on the political spectrum regardless of age and politics, and lastly it accurately reflects the idea that what we want is grounded in reality. Universalist is also pretty good in that it at least suggests everyone equally, not some more equal than others. I like the idea of moving away from any kind of identity politics which is how we got in this mess in the first place. Kathaerine Birbalsingh is really good on this here twitter.com/Miss_Snuffy/status/1422502804451627012

OP posts:
Shedbuilder · 11/08/2021 21:00

Please go ahead and popularise it if you can. I do like the idea that we're on fire — in a positive way, not a die in a grease fire way.

ChristinaXYZ · 11/08/2021 21:55

@Shedbuilder

Please go ahead and popularise it if you can. I do like the idea that we're on fire — in a positive way, not a die in a grease fire way.
Some days it does feel like the latter!

If any of the three words caught on I'd be delighted though.

OP posts:
SmokedDuck · 11/08/2021 22:25

Universalist is an interesting choice. I like it better than something like realist, which makes me think of the kinds of people who want to insist on the complete objectivity of science, and I also think it's likely to get bogged down in questions of what is real.

Universalist gets to the point much more to my mind, because it essentially is a rejection of Critical Theory. And that's what a lot of these different people , be they conservatives, traditional Marxists, classical liberals, Catholics, have in common. And it goes beyond gender ideology , which is only one small part of identity politics. We are all human beings and there is a universality in that where we are equal in dignity, we all have bodies and live in a physical world that is knowable and possible to make rational statements about, we believe it is possible to discuss ideas and have rational arguments about ethics and truth.

These are all ideas that involve a kind of universalism and shared human nature, a shared reality.

ClumpingBambooIsALie · 11/08/2021 22:31

Realist has bad connotations ("race realists").

SmokedDuck · 11/08/2021 22:39

But in any case, I think there is something to the idea that people respond more to a name that has a positive meaning, rather than one that seems to be "anti" something, even if the anti is bad, it's kind of a reactionary idea.

It would be nice if young people could talk about ideas like classical liberalism or rationalism etc but those don't seem to be in their vocabulary.

ClumpingBambooIsALie · 11/08/2021 22:47

Any term chosen will rapidly be misrepresented, smeared and turned into an accusation. It really doesn't matter what it is, as long as it's being used by those who dare to say "no" to people who are used to stamping their foot and getting what they want.

ClumpingBambooIsALie · 11/08/2021 22:48

And I don't like "lit". It reminds me of "Brights".

SmokedDuck · 11/08/2021 23:04

Lit is a euphemism for high where I live, so I don't think it would work here.

Aparallaxia · 11/08/2021 23:51

So far I have not been asked to specify pronouns. My position is at a public university, and that means, I am pretty sure, that we can't be compelled to specify our own pronouns. But I am not sure what the rule is for using other people's pronouns and whether that would count as compelled speech. It's already a problem remembering which pronouns students use, and I expect these wokesters would immediately run to the university crying foul if we refused to use them. I wonder if a case specifically addressing this issue will come up soon.

DH is glad he is retiring soon...

StrangeLookingParasite · 12/08/2021 00:30

I like the idea of having a generalised name for everyone who believes in two sexes and doesn't believe in gender

Gender atheist.

Shedbuilder · 12/08/2021 10:10

@ClumpingBambooIsALie

And I don't like "lit". It reminds me of "Brights".
What does 'brights' mean?
JellySlice · 12/08/2021 10:24

Gender Atheist is good, because it emphasises that gender is nothing more than a belief system.

ClumpingBambooIsALie · 12/08/2021 11:26

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brights_movement

DaisiesandButtercups · 12/08/2021 11:54

@ClumpingBambooIsALie

Any term chosen will rapidly be misrepresented, smeared and turned into an accusation. It really doesn't matter what it is, as long as it's being used by those who dare to say "no" to people who are used to stamping their foot and getting what they want.
I think that this is true.

Universalists sounds too much like a religious sect to me. Lit made me smile, I really like that one and Realist works for me but I am unfamiliar with the term Race Realism (is this another US ideology?).

I agree with the pp who said that we want to avoid creating a competing ‘identity’. I am so done with the whole identity politics label thing. I have sympathy with those women who no longer want to refer to themselves as feminists too.

It is a simple concept, male and female exists across species and for human beings adult males are called men, adult females are women. I feel it needs a very simple terminology and one that works for everyone across the political and belief spectrum.

Gender atheism doesn’t work for me because I am becoming ever more pedantic about the actual meaning of words. Atheist means without a god.

On a side note I discovered the actual original meaning of fetish a couple of days ago. I wouldn’t have guessed, I shall be reconsidering my use of the word.

I will go with Jess de Wahls and her lovely embroidered patch and declare myself a gender identity or queer theory heretic for now, or perhaps just say I don’t subscribe to queer theory or gender identity and I believe that they are harmful to individuals and to society.

DaisiesandButtercups · 12/08/2021 12:00

Heresy is a belief or practice contrary to orthodox doctrine. Ironically the root of the word is being able to choose.

My beliefs and practices are contrary to the orthodox doctrine of gender identity/queer theory.

Therefore I am a gender heretic.

ClumpingBambooIsALie · 12/08/2021 12:24

"Race realist" is a euphemism used by racists who try to use things like social science to justify their racism. I've only come across it online.

StrangeLookingParasite · 12/08/2021 13:39

Gender atheism doesn’t work for me because I am becoming ever more pedantic about the actual meaning of words. Atheist means without a god.

I think in this context, their belief in gender functions like a belief in god - infallible, cannot be questioned.

JellySlice · 12/08/2021 18:59

'Atheist' denies the existence of the thing being worshipped. 'Heretic' acknowledges its existence but rejects it.

On one hand I prefer atheist because the trans beliefs are like a fundamentalist, proselytising religion, and atheism is an accepted way of life regarding religion.

OTOH heretic acknowledges that gender beliefs exist - we have grown up with them - but we now reject them.

SmokedDuck · 12/08/2021 20:41

I think the author is looking for a positive word that describes the actual viewpoint though, rather than presenting it as a rejection of something else.

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