Help me with the definitions please!

[Violet9]

Ok, I've been trying to figure this out by myself with searching and reading online resources, but can anyone help me out here:

Is it possible to be trans (born female but identifies as male), non binary and lesbian at the same time?

Wouldn't being trans mean that you're not non binary, because you are identifying with one sex (male) rather than as non binary not identifying with either sex? If you're a trans boy (this is an 11 year old I'm talking about), can you be a lesbian, considering that you no longer identify as a female - so you're then not a female attracted to other females anymore? Also, saying you're asexual and lesbian, if lesbians are females sexually attracted to other females - can you also be asexual considering no sexual feelings are involved? Please help me unpick and understand this!

@Chickenyhead
"I reject that belief.
I have no gender.
I don't have to adopt one either.
I have a biological sex."

Didn't ask, don't care.
"Man" and "woman" are genders btw.
If you do call yourself one of these, then you do have a gender.

That's all thanks.

Yet I've never seen any of that tripe recorded in their medical records.

It's almost as if...it's made up.

Man and woman are sexes, always have been. Male and female.

Gender isn't compulsory. I don't and won't ever have one.

You can pick one. But nah I'm fine.

How about back to the topic eh?

Although I am torn between 1) post for the lurkers 2) don't feed the troll.

So OP, how is your 11 year old and who has been planting the seed of this?

[quote BluebirdsSong]@Chickenyhead
"I reject that belief.
I have no gender.
I don't have to adopt one either.
I have a biological sex."

Didn't ask, don't care.
"Man" and "woman" are genders btw.
If you do call yourself one of these, then you do have a gender.

That's all thanks.[/quote]
Please don’t post on a website that deals primarily with women’s health and imply that a need to talk about post-natal incontinence or symptoms of menopause has anything to do with identity.

Thank you.

[quote BluebirdsSong]@Chickenyhead
"They wouldn't, because they are scientists, who know what sex a child is."

And then society at large assigns a gender category based on sex.[/quote]
And we, as feminists, reject that category. It’s a pretty fundamental part of feminism.

[quote BluebirdsSong]@Chickenyhead
"I reject that belief.
I have no gender.
I don't have to adopt one either.
I have a biological sex."

Didn't ask, don't care.
"Man" and "woman" are genders btw.
If you do call yourself one of these, then you do have a gender.

That's all thanks.[/quote]
So are

'stallion' and 'mare' genders, then?

Seeing as they are the words used to describe adult male horse and adult female horse like man and woman are the words used to describe adult male human and adult female human?

@Chickenyhead
"I reject that belief.
I have no gender.
I don't have to adopt one either.
I have a biological sex."

This. Works for me.
Raised our three DDs that way too. All are heading for heavily male-dominated professions. I don't think that's a coincidence. Gender stereotypes are rubbish. Putting people onto increasingly smaller boxes is regressive, what good does it do anyone?

@Faceicle

How about back to the topic eh?

Although I am torn between 1) post for the lurkers 2) don't feed the troll.

So OP, how is your 11 year old and who has been planting the seed of this?

Yes, I am curious also. At age 11, impending puberty may well be weighing heavily and be pretty scary, and the school PHSE lessons may not help (do primaries even do much?! Ours didn't). I talked a lot with our girls about what to expect, and when. Becoming an adult female is definitely daunting at a certain age. I could see an 11 year old's apprehension leading to conflation with some of the ideas in the OP's posts.

Wonder how you ask a horse its gender? 🐴+ 🎀 = mare, 🐴 + 🎩= stallion?

Doctors, parents, third parties in general. Gender identity is typically assigned to kids based on their genitals

You appear to be confusing sex role stereotypes for 'gender identity'

"Man" and "woman" are genders btw.
If you do call yourself one of these, then you do have a gender

Don't be daft. Woman is the simply the word for an adult human female. It isn't a 'gender' because the ONLY requirement to be included in the category is to be female. Personality or self expression is completely irrelevant.

"Man" and "woman" are genders btw.
If you do call yourself one of these, then you do have a gender.

Nonsense.

Man and woman are the sex designator words for male and female adult humans. Just as vixen is the sex designator word for a female fox, queen for a female cat, jenny a female donkey, jill a female ferret, hen a female chicken etc etc etc

Gender is the word for the socially constructed sex stereotypes and sex role stereotypes any given society imposes on members of a sex at any given time in its history. The manifestations of these stereotypes are in constant flux, varying across time and space.

Sometimes so much that the same stereotype can be applied to the opposite sex in another culture and/or era. (Such as pink being a colour for both sexes across Europe in the 17th and 18th century, being favoured for boys in England in the 19th century and slowly but surely becoming adopted as a feminine-coded colour from the 1930s, 40s and 50s, predominantly in the Anglosphere.)

Or opposite stereotypes applied to the same sex. (Such as girls in former East Germany being taught that a proper woman works full time while at the same time girls in former West Germany learned that a proper woman is a housewife.)

An 11yo exploring and playing pick and mix with some currently trendy labels just needs love and listening to while you watch and wait. I'd be inclined to monitor where they're going online and encourage a wider range of activities if they're closeted with a device all day. Things can escalate quickly online. You need to be alert to possible grooming, which usually involves a bit of alienation from parents.

If the child is still chatting openly to you, it suggests they're not too deep in yet. Don't be asking them to define anything or expecting much coherence from the picture. Do be there and unshockable and reassuring, and ready to be the active parent if necessary and protect them if they're scaring themselves.

It's just exhausting.

I'm sure part of this movement has its roots in keeping the younger generation's minds occupied with deciding they're trans enby demibois instead of being rightfully concerned about capitalism and climate change.

Didn't ask, don't care.
"Man" and "woman" are genders btw.
If you do call yourself one of these, then you do have a gender.

Man and woman are the sex based nouns for adult human beings, men are males and women are females. Gender was widely used as a synomyn for human sex. People are women or men, they do not have "woman gender identity" or "man gender identity".

I call myself a woman and don't have a gender identity.

Saw this on twitter last night and felt it was a strong summary, might be of use to some:

That's all thanks.

So #nodebate is back in vogue then?

"Man" and "woman" are genders btw.

They aren't btw. They're words describing the sex of a human being in the same way that a doe is a word for a female rabbit, not a "gender" that a male rabbit might have. Hope that helps.

Germaine Greer laying into this:

twitter.com/WomenReadWomen/status/1422890831615168526

Full transcript of that clip below (but it's worth hearing it from GG herself).

But I'm not going to be hijacked for this... question of sexual identity - of gender identity.

Look, I wrote a book a long time ago about how you get made into a woman. In those days we called it conditioning.

And you could see it - it happens from birth. That masquerade is what is now being presented to us back as the real deal. With the hair extensions and the false eye-lashes...

And you think, "why do you think that's real?"

Now, gender can be anything you like. It's entirely cultural.

But unfortunately, sex is not entirely cultural. It's something you're born with, whether you like it or not.

And most of us who grow up to be women, who have our first period, 12, 13, 14, whatever, traumatising, otherwise; a body we thought we knew becomes smelly and dirty and different.

And then the boys come along and be watching pornography and say that we're not groomed, we have to remove our body hair and so on. We're going to spend our lives removing body hair!

That's femininity, which is the fake version of femaleness.

Female is real, and it's sex, and femininity is unreal, and it's gender. And it's a role you play.

And for that to become the given identity of women is a profoundly disabling notion.

[quote BluebirdsSong]@Chickenyhead
"I reject that belief.
I have no gender.
I don't have to adopt one either.
I have a biological sex."

Didn't ask, don't care.
"Man" and "woman" are genders btw.
If you do call yourself one of these, then you do have a gender.

That's all thanks.[/quote]
Didn't ask, don't care.

Yet...

If you do call yourself one of these, then you do have a gender.

Will still take it upon Blueself to arbitrarily assign new meanings to words that have been used for centuries to label sex and in do doing assert power over an opprssed group by forcibly redefining them without their consent.

Because boring old "non-trans" people don't get the right to self define or have their reality respected. And boring old females don't get recognition that it is because of their female body and not their gender identity that they have been dehumanised, owned, raped, traded, beaten, murdered for thousands of years. I mean, why should something as teeny and trivial as a group with millennia of being defined as less than fully human because of their bodies justify that group being allowed a name?