Help to find the outlines of people with lights showing male and female is easy to identify

[SwimmingCait]

Hi

I am three hours in to a written discussion about womens rights with a friend who has a very TRA perspective from my point of view. I have been trying to find the link to the study of moving shadows with lights on (I think) their shoulders, pelvis and legs where people can tell someone's sex pretty much all the time. Does anyone have it saved more accesibly than I do?

Many thanks for any help

Was it this one?

cutting.psych.cornell.edu/pubs/recognizing_sex.pdf

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0966636221001934

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25548119/

Studies on gait difference between the sexes. Can't find the light points footage, sorry.

Not what you’re looking for, but I accidentally found this while searching.

”The aim of the present study was to investigate potential gender differences in a series of tasks, involving the recognition of distinct features from point light displays (PLDs) depicting bodily movements of a male and female actor. Although recognition scores were considerably high at the overall group level, female participants were more accurate than males in recognizing the depicted actions from PLDs. Response times were significantly higher for males compared to females on PLD recognition tasks involving (i) the general recognition of ‘biological motion’ versus ‘non-biological’ (or ‘scrambled’ motion); or (ii) the recognition of the ‘emotional state’ of the PLD-figures.”

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3111458/

This one?

Also this

There is a video isn't there, but I wouldn't know where to find it.
Reading the article above, which is quite old, was interesting though, they found that people could identify sex very reliably from minimal information (points of light at various joints) but they also found that if 'natural movements' were interfered with eg reducing or increasing arm swing- then sex was less reliably identified.

Which makes me suspect that if someone was consciously altering their gait or posture (for whatever reason) their sex might be less reliably identified.
Not much help OP but a new research question.

The video in this article?

medium.com/@katieja/but-how-can-you-tell-7901324d0919

You are all brilliant. Thank you so much. I might send all of it!

You could have a ply with this:
www.biomotionlab.ca/html5-bml-walker/
But it has sex as a spectrum

[quote NancyDrawed]The video in this article?

medium.com/@katieja/but-how-can-you-tell-7901324d0919[/quote]
That's a great article - have bookmarked

Actually you might like that whole thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3771902-But-HOW-CAN-YOU-TELL

Light study referenced in this thread :

Just this morning I read in Frans DeWaal's book "Mama's Last Hug: Animal Emotions and What They Tell Us about Ourselves" a section in which he recounts an early experience he had with chimps, who could tell female from male humans even when the males were cross dressed. He also details how this immediate identification of whether a human being is male or female is common to many other animal species, and describes experiments in which researchers attach only three sensors (to arms, legs, and pelvis), and people can correctly identify whether the three points of light they see moving on a screen are males or females (no outlines of the bodies). (Pages 80-81 if anyone has the book and wants to look it up.)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3668898-trans-widows-escape-committee-3-rise-of-the-trans-widows?pg=30

And I remember this Batman and Catwoman mannerism/gait swap video:

There's also this, which is quite amusing.

(From 5:32 onwards it explains the differences.)

Katie Alcock (university psychology academic) writes about this - you can google her work (and help her dig her garden re the Girl Guides' safeguarding policies). She's done a fair bit of research on the way that small children recognise & identify people's sex.

@ShortBacknSides

Katie Alcock (university psychology academic) writes about this - you can google her work (and help her dig her garden re the Girl Guides' safeguarding policies). She's done a fair bit of research on the way that small children recognise & identify people's sex.

@KatieAlcock has a thread here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3771902-But-HOW-CAN-YOU-TELL

That's what the OP @SwimmingCait needs to send to her friend.

You think you are in a discussion but it sounds more like an ideological struggle session.
Do you really believe that your female friend can't tell a persons sex?

Stick to the basics and ask her to explain her beliefs. Ask her to explain how a person can have a sacred, self declared gender identity but not a sex.
Society has not found a solution to the problem of male violence against women. Ask her why she thinks that is, why it no longer matters, and what gives her the right to impose that belief system on others.