Guardian letter on wearing women's underwear

[MondayYogurt]

I've never asked myself what drives these urges, but this makes a sad sort of sense.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/aug/06/childhood-desire-wear-womens-pants-has-returned

Over the years I’ve had many similar letters from men who stole and wore their mothers’ underwear – and all of them said their mothers were emotionally distant. It’s not uncommon. Ultimately, it’s about seeking comfort.

Hmm. Mothers are blamed for a lot of things.

I had an emotionally distant father. I never once wore his socks or pants or even thought about it.

There is wearing what you want, and there is trying to make up for emotional distance, and there is sexually driven behaviour. Probably for a lot of people there are links between them, but I think this response mixes them up unhelpfully. The suggestion is that if this person had had emotionally competent parenting, they wouldn't want to wear 'women's' underwear. That doesn't really make a lot of sense in terms of them also being liberated to wear what they like. And no mention at all of any sexual element; does that make sense?

I think it's a tone deaf and not very intelligent answer.

How does wearing your mother's underwear make you feel close to her and comforted? I mean that's seriously weird to begin with

My mother was distant for much of my childhood because of serious illness that I wasn't told about at the time (this was the 60s/early 70s). She died when I was 14. I have items of her clothing. I have never worn them or wanted to wear them. (I have items of jewellery of hers that I'd like to wear but I'm too afraid of losing them!)

So is this just a male thing?

Why is it usually sexual style undies. Why is it part of sex for lots of woman's lingerie wearing men.

Sounds just another excuse to blame women. Mothers.

I don't agree at all with this. I think again its blaming the mother for the son's issue.
I know someone who cross dresses and he was very close to his mum

The writer was a CSA victim - age 6.

Did anyone read the letter I linked?

@PermanentTemporary

I had an emotionally distant father. I never once wore his socks or pants or even thought about it.

There is wearing what you want, and there is trying to make up for emotional distance, and there is sexually driven behaviour. Probably for a lot of people there are links between them, but I think this response mixes them up unhelpfully. The suggestion is that if this person had had emotionally competent parenting, they wouldn't want to wear 'women's' underwear. That doesn't really make a lot of sense in terms of them also being liberated to wear what they like. And no mention at all of any sexual element; does that make sense?

I think it's a tone deaf and not very intelligent answer.

This.

I read the letter earlier today and I found it quite weird, and the answer to be weirder.
Are we really still claiming that men doing something is the fault of their mothers for being distant?
If the mothers were so distant, why are the boys supposedly choosing to wear their underwear? Why aren't they snuggling into their mums old jumper or tee shirt?
Where are all the girls with emotionally distant mums wearing their mother's underwear?
This just doesn't make sense. It doesn't read right to me at all. I don't really know what the answer is but I can't help wondering how much of it is fantasy and a rewriting of history.

@MondayYogurt

The writer was a CSA victim - age 6.

Did anyone read the letter I linked?

I did.

The agony aunt says that she and her colleagues have only encountered this in men who felt their mothers were emotionally distant.

But I've only encountered it in men who are very close to their mothers.

So my immediate reaction was to assume her sample is representative of men who do this AND are sufficiently distressed by it to seek professional advice or therapy. That's an important detail. If you only consult your therapist friends, you're going to hear sad stories.

Poor man though, and good to send him the message that his private behaviour harms nobody and isn't shameful.

Really I think there are a lot of questions to be asked about boy's emotional and sexual development. Is it about attachment to a mother figure who is 'other' as opposed to girl's where attachment to the mother may be simpler - 'a role model'.
Why are male sexual paraphilias so common?

Not particularly impressed by the answer. I certainly don't think it's a mother's fault. Seeming distance is in the eye of the beholder, maybe it's the children who desire to monopolize the mother. If a mother isn't distant she'll probably be accused of being smothering.

A link doesn't necessarily mean that there is blame or fault. While I'm not sure this experience can be generalised to others, if we take it at face value, the mother being distant for some reason, or perceived as such, might be the cause of the child's actions, but it doesn't mean she's to blame or at fault. That element comes from an underlying idea that mothers should not be cold and distant, and that they are always culpable if they are, which we don't necessarily have to accept.

I have heard other accounts of this kind of behaviour in boys who aren't yet in puberty, and it's always seemed to me that they aren't directly sexual when they start. That seems to come later on.

I’d be emotionally distant from a son that I caught trying on my underwear

Is it always slinky underwear or do people get the same buzz from sensible cotton M&S full briefs, I wonder? I bet more mums wore M&S.

Well ..

Little boys often dress up in mums clothes. She's often the one they spend time with most and they think she's fab so put on their heels etc. I mean that's common and standard.

Sneaking pairs of her knickers though? That sounds rather different. It's not dressing up as her in the same way. Would have to be surreptitious.

As a mum who used to have 6yo I'm surprised she didn't notice.

Bathtime?
Where did he put them after? Back where he got them?
I mean sounds like a difficult task to do covertly and often.

To feel close to distant mum. As pp said how many girls do this with their mums knickers?
Boys and girls with their dads pants?

His background sounds awful. Surely the answer should be unresolved issues. What's happening to make these feelings come back now? Getting support in getting to grips with that would be a better answer surely then yep.

Also it doesn't say if in relationship/ if was would they want to do this openly.

If it's literally just knickers under clothes then really it's not an issue surely.

Getting support with the rest of it is.

The man I knew who wore women's underwear was very close to his mother. No emotional distance there at all.

Obviously that's anecdotal evidence, but so is the letter and the response.

Next patient, Doctor Freud.

@Theythinkitsalloveritisnow

How does wearing your mother's underwear make you feel close to her and comforted? I mean that's seriously weird to begin with

Quite. I can see how wearing her jumper or something that smelt of her might make you feel comforted as a child - like a baby does! But they never seem to want to do that, do they?

Wearing someone else's underwear should just feel a bit gross and weird.

There have always been "snowdroppers" - men who steal women's underwear from clotheslines for nefarious purposes.

But hey, let's blame their mothers! Must have veered too far one way or the other from the minuscule acceptable range on the smothering/distant spectrum.

Right. 🙄

My nephews, as little boys, used to sneak their dad’s t shirts in bed if he was away - they missed him and it make them feel close to him. Once my sister cottoned on, she and her DH kept a box of the t shirts for the boys to have if they missed their dad. That’s normal and completely understandable IMO.
On the other hand, a friend of mine disclosed that she sold her used underwear to men online for lots of money - she often got requests for particular types of underwear, and once got asked if she could send her own mothers underwear to him! What is it with men and the wearing of women’s knickers?

I imagine, through time, there have been a million emotionally distant fathers. Mine was.

Not once did I think, I'll put on his grundies to feel closer to him.

Feel sorry for the abuse he suffered of course, but he basically is asking a women for permission to indulge in a sexual fetish.

Didn't Edmund Kemper wear his mother's underwear?

I think decent proper taking therapy is needed for men like this. Not harmful in itself but it looks like its a sign of deeper problems.

I'm not buying it. The underwear element makes no sense at all.

Someone I know lost his mother at a very young age so I suppose you can call that 'emotionally distant'. However, he is (or was before he 'came out' as a woman) a gay man with no siblings and a distant father.
Most of the men I have read about have a very confused idea of what a woman actually is.

Maybe I’m cynical but the first thought I had was that the humiliating act of writing into a national newspaper could have been part of a kink. Getting off on potentially being told he was perverted maybe. The way he said “Is it OK or is it weird, perverted, wrong, strange….” So many adjectives!