The Samaritans: a "Specific Demographic"

[Jaysmith71]

Samaritans volunteers abused their position of trust by having sex with vulnerable callers, The Telegraph understands, prompting the charity to 'listen in' to conversations for the first time.The “shocking” incidents are believed to include volunteers meeting up with callers for inappropriate relationships.It is understood that there was a “specific demographic” of some "middle-aged men” who were abusing female callers by meeting up and having sex with them.The charity, which provides a helpline service for people in emotional distress or at risk of suicide, has strict rules concerning volunteer contact with callers.The incidents have prompted a mass overhaul of policies announced...

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/01/exclusive-samaritans-listen-conversations-volunteers-had-sex/

I worked for the Samaritans for a while and yes most of the calls were sexual or abusive although not all of course.

I find it hard to understand how this could have happened although I don’t know what safeguards were in place to prevent it.

You can build up a rapport with someone as you always give your ‘name’ and a caller can ask for you specifically if they call again.

The branch I was in allowed visits in small booths until late in the evening and you would get random and regular callers turn up. In that situation I think someone vulnerable could be taken advantage of although it didn’t cross my mind at the time.

I do know a retired woman who trained with me who left after a distressing incident with an in-person caller one evening. Some of the experienced Samaritans had seen it all and would probably have been able to deal with it but she was very upset. I agree with a pp that women Samaritans could well be put off being volunteers.

There's news about exploitation of the vulnerable by those with access who are supposed to be nice and trustworthy almost every day. And/or abuse being facilitated/ ignored.

Last week or so we've had

Scouts
Care homes
Abuse continuing in Bradford

More? I lose track.

They need to stop being treated by media govt etc as separate shocking events.

There needs to be a holistic review and some kind of working group to look at all these and say from the last 20 years as a piece.

That will enable a really broad understanding of the whole end to end failures that allow this to happen over and over.
Also an in depth understanding of which orgs are attractive and which are not even if in same sector. Patterns of backgrounds of perpetrators, what they do what they lie about. How they gain trust in the orgs. Are there networks. Do they say similar things to get the positions. Have they commonalities in their background to be seen as nice guys- past volunteering are there certain orgs that are preferred to have on CV.
What dynamics are in place that make others turn a blind eye?

This would be a massive opportunity IMO.

Not going to happen I'm sure.

I've also heard that women on the phones in orgs to help get stacks of pervy weirdos.

There must be ways to reduce or stop that. I can think of a couple ideas immediately.

I've heard they call and hang up until they get a woman. I mean. Obviously.

Perhaps unsurprisingly, some of the men were wanting to know if the sex was consensual (massively missing the point), with one even suggesting that if so then it was 'fair game'

Whenever I hear the “no man would bother…” or “people just want to pee in peace” I remember the teen films of my childhood, stuff like Porkies and Revenge of the Nerds. Back then, any sexual contact a male could con or manipulate from a female by subterfuge without resorting to overpowering her was fair game, played for laughs. Wear a mask so she thinks she’s having sex with her boyfriend? Brilliant! Drill holes to spy on the girls’ showers? What a laugh!

And in the 2012 Olympics all the blokes going on about watching women’s beach volleyball. Internet porn was widely available by then but still they got a thrill from finding pictures of girls showing flesh they weren’t intending to display.

This is what the “Pervy men wouldn’t bother doing [xyz] when they can get access in easier ways” crowd don’t get. For a lot of pervy men, running the con, transgressing the boundaries, drilling the hole in the shower, it’s all “fair game”, in fact it’s part of the thrill.

Maybe that’s not the case for the generations of men that grew up with less vile “comedy”. I really hope not. But even if my lot were the last lot, there’s plenty of them still around.

YY I remember porkies-

Didn't they get on s roof so they could get s peek into the girls/women's showers and changing? I only saw it once years ago but I remember that!

Also I think Monty python, Benny hill, probably more.

All with things about men trying to see women naked/ undressed. Presented as not just totally normal but funny.

Oh and mash! The blonde woman the men were always horrible to. (But bants so haha). Having a shower and they made the sides fall down so she was naked under the shower with masses of men standing around laughing.

Hahaha!!!!

It wasn't that long ago surely..!

@Konyeshno

When my sister worked at the Samaritans she was appalled/infuriated by the number of 'suicidal' men who just wanted details of the type and colour of her underwear.

My experience too, horrible calls from complete perverts on the night shift, and it was generally laughed off as an inevitable consequence but I found it very distressing as a young volunteer. Some of those calls I still remember 20 years later. An overhaul is long overdue.

'Back then, any sexual contact a male could con or manipulate from a female by subterfuge without resorting to overpowering her was fair game,'

'Maybe that’s not the case for the generations of men that grew up with less vile “comedy'

The content has changed but not the any way possible idea.

Now there's a totally standard thing in popular films etc and has been for years.

Bloke who is presented as not attractive in some way fancies girl/ meets girl.

She is vv good looking.

He is a philandering misogynist/ really rude to her/ really boring/ so shy he hardly speaks to her / has (what the director etc see as terrible dress sense or looks).

This that etc.

He gets the beautiful girl. She seems to fall for him even as he's doing ^ whatever.

Oh and on the boundary violation of the earlier stuff mentioned in previous posts. He is often obsessive, stalky, sabotaging dates/ nights out with friends, persistent after being told no multiple times etc etc.

And he gets the girl.

And it's everywhere.

Esp USA output.

It's a well known massive issue gone on for years- the callers wanting to be creepy at a woman.

Off the top of my head.

1. As soon as starts. She says I'm transferring your call to a colleague who can help. Over to a man.

1. These days numbers can be tracked easily. I bet they don't all hide them. Banned. When they call auto message saying you're using our female volunteers to wank at. Unacceptable. (Worded differently!). If you need help call this alternative number to talk to a man about what you need help with.

1. All calls taken by man first. Triage- see who can best help you. Having to make up a reason etc will put a lot off I'd imagine.

Off the top of my head. The orgs should be able to come up with some really good solutions surely?

Actually this was done to me as a teen by a loathsome old Samaritan man. If they're investigating, can I add my own experience? It was a very long time ago but I remember it all very vividly.

@NiceGerbil

I've also heard that women on the phones in orgs to help get stacks of pervy weirdos.

There must be ways to reduce or stop that. I can think of a couple ideas immediately.

I've heard they call and hang up until they get a woman. I mean. Obviously.

In my time I've had employment with the odd call center to get by.

It's shocking what some pervs phone up and ask/say. Like c'mon is this really how you get your kicks heave breathing down a phone to me and asking if my feet are sweaty in my work shoes...mate I'm here for you to book a holiday like?!

Company policy was always end the call immediately. Then you could report it to the team leader who would review the call and block their number from calling again.

People are weird....

@rosielee

Actually this was done to me as a teen by a loathsome old Samaritan man. If they're investigating, can I add my own experience? It was a very long time ago but I remember it all very vividly.

Bloody hell. I'm so sorry.

Might be worth looking into if/ how to report.

Contact page on Samaritans site? Don't put all details. Just say you want to report an incident related to the sexual exploitation of those seeking help. How do you do that.

I'd think that's the thing to do.

Fucking bastards every one of them.

Skates I think there's one thing the overwhelming majority of the people have in common...

@NiceGerbil

Skates I think there's one thing the overwhelming majority of the people have in common...

Oh yes...men.

Never had a woman call up to ask me what underwear I had on that's for sure.

Thank you so much, Gerbil. That is a great way to put it. I would like to have my say, report it at long last.

No probs obviously!

Just thought. Given the situation you might (as I might) put what happened on the first contact.

Get a person higher up- insist. Not a contact form or standard calls person iyswim.

Others might have better ideas- they might give you the brush off. I hope not but...

It's bloody serious actually. I can't begin to tell you what it did to me. It's kind of unspeakable, so I wouldn t mind speaking it, now that it's out in the open. Fuckers.

I was very vulnerable indeed.

You can build up a rapport with someone as you always give your ‘name’ and a caller can ask for you specifically if they call again.

^^this is not true.

The sex callers loved the lack of consent…. Otherwise not just use other available ways to get off?

I often suspected some of the male volunteers were the Pervy
callers….

I called once and happened to mention I am bisexual and the guy started asking me all sorts of questions about sex between women. He then told me what shifts he worked and gave me the number of that branch so I could call back and speak to him again. Needless to say I didn't.

@JulesRimetStillGleaming that’s so awful.

I’m so sorry that you got a predator when you needed comfort.

You may well not want to but you could report to police.

The fact it's in the news is obviously going to mean loads of victims take action. That they weren't in a position to at the time.

Fucking scum. Anywhere there are vulnerable people. Men get in and abuse.

Jules, that is horrific. I'm so sorry.

It seems like they need to start connecting male callers to male volunteers and female callers to female volunteers, then they’re solving the problem of perverted male predators at both ends of the equation and protecting their female callers and their female volunteers. It should be relatively easy to accomplish this with voice recognition if they had the will to do it.

Anyone think they’ll actually implement this?

No, me neither. Because (a) they don’t give a shit about protecting women and (b) TRAs would kick up a fuss. And as always (b) provides a fantastic excuse for (a).

I ring the Samaritans a lot (I'm autistic and I find it helps me cope) and sometimes I want to talk to a man. Loads of complicated reasons but sometimes I prefer it (most of the time probably - I find men easier to talk to). So that wouldn't work. And not all men are predatory (and that's from someone who has encountered one). I've spoken to some lovely Samaritans that are male.

So that wouldn't work. And not all men are predatory

You could specifically request a man in that instance after being put through to a woman. I don’t see how that is an obstacle. It would be easy to put extra checks and safeguarding in for calls like that, or for calls where men specifically requested a woman.

It’s extremely obvious that not all men are predatory, does that actually need mentioning?

Didn't Ted bundy work for a help line of some sort?