Transwomen in sports

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From the BBC news app:

"And since 2015, its stipulations have stated athletes who have transitioned from male to female can compete in women's sport - without requiring surgery - as long as they have declared their gender identity is female for at least four years and kept their testosterone level below 10 nanomoles per litre for at least 12 months."

"According to NHS data, men's testosterone levels range between 10 and 30 nanomoles per litre dependant on factors including age and time of day, but a younger healthy male typically ranges between 20 and 30. Women's testosterone levels range between 0.7 and 2.8."

whaaaaat?! Most likely a woman would be disqualified for doping, no?

They need to bring in a new category for trans people! Men's sports, women's sports and trans's sports. Much fairer

Most likely a woman would be disqualified for doping, no?

If a women did have such high Testosterone, it would be very likely she had some serious health issues.

You might find this thread interesting too. Although there are plenty of good sports threads on here.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4285849-Female-athletes-and-testosterone

You'll find this chart intriguing.

So where's the women's sports for biological women going to be?

And, of course, doesn't account for the differences in skeletal structure, musculature, lung capacity, and cardiac output from having gone through a male puberty.

I’ve said it before, but testosterone is an irrelevant red herring.
You could remove every molecule of testosterone in a man’s body - it would do nothing to shrink his shoulder girdle, femurs, cardiac output, lung volume, oxygen carrying capacity, proportion of fast twitch muscle fibres, etc etc. Nor will it lower his centre of gravity or alter the angle of his pelvis.
He will retain all the unfair advantages of being male - and for that reason should be banned from women’s sports events.

Having played rugby in my teens into my thirties I'm aghast that ANYONE in RFU thinks that males playing in women's rugby is in any way acceptable.

Richard Budgett from IOC said this week that in elite sports it might be OK to ban TW (oh, right, thanks for that) but that as you start to look at amateur sports it might make more sense to prioritise inclusion over safety.....
Wtf

Seen via this thread
twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1421152641984368641?s=19

Any word yet from the RFU about their trans inclusion consultation? I didn’t hold back in my comments.

It's not even about the current testosterone level. It's going through male puberty that creates the vast majority of the performance advantage. Research shows that even when adult male people drop their testosterone levels to near zero (so well below the limit for the Olympics) they show little to no drop in sports performance as long as they continue training. The only sports body to have acted on this research is World Rugby who have said that transwomen cannot compete in rugby matches under their jurisdiction (which unfortunately is only at international level) for fairness and safety reasons.

If you want to learn more about the scientific evidence, the world rugby decision and more about the effects of transwomen in women's sports then these two podcasts are full of information from a sports scientist who knows what he's talking about:

play.acast.com/s/realscienceofsport/whyrugbyscontroversialnewtransgenderguidelinesmakesenseforallsportingcodes

play.acast.com/s/realscienceofsport/whytransgenderathletesthreatenfairnessinwomenssport

And not forgetting all biological female athletes have to cope with their female reproductive systems and probably hormonal contraception, which,speaking from experience would make life for them much harder than a male athlete.
As a horsewoman trying to compete when on a period was hell and my body certainly did not respond well to the first couple of hormonal contraceptives which put my body completely out of sorts. Why does no body ever mention this aspect of being a female athlete?

I find the lack of balance in the discussion, from the supposedly impartial BBC, deeply shocking. Renee Richards was 43 when she lost to Virginia Wade FFS.

It is insane. There is no place for transwomen in women's sports ever under any circumstances. Simple.
Scrap any ridiculous rules about testosterone.
Transwomen need to compete in the men's category, they are not excluded from sport.
They do need to clarify the rules for people with DSDs and have testing that aligns with that.

Well today is the big day, Hubbard in the women's weightlifting. The BBC is obfuscating by using the TW word so noone (except us) knows what they are on about.

It would be so refreshing if just one of the BBC handmaidens would stick their head above the parapet and say 'male-bodied' or even 'male'?

But they won't.

What I would like to see is that we keep the two sex categories for sport but perhaps refer to them as male and female, and make it clear that all gender identities are welcome in each category.

So LH would complete in the male category and she would be referred to as a trans woman but her trans identity would be respected e.g. name/pronouns, and there would be zero tolerance for anyone being rude about her presenting in a feminine way (same as no tolerance for racism or homophobia).

I'm not sure how this would work for trans men on testosterone though ... but it's a start.

Are there any transmen competing in the men’s category in any sport ?

I agree.

Transwomen are not excluded from sport at any level. They are and should always be welcome to play and compete with other males.

They should never be allowed to compete against women or on women’s teams. Not only because that’s cheating. But also because it puts women at risk of physical injury — both while playing and in training, when women have to push themselves beyond their limits to try to compete.

Are there any transmen competing in the men’s category in any sport ?

I also wondered about this. And wondered if there were any sports where being born female would be advantageous when competing against biological men?

I think it is unlikely that any transmen compete within the men’s category. And I assume they would be excluded under the women’s category? I assume any transmen just aren’t really going to be able to carry on their sport?

@Antsinyourpanta

Are there any transmen competing in the men’s category in any sport ?

I also wondered about this. And wondered if there were any sports where being born female would be advantageous when competing against biological men?

Of course there are! You'll see: in a few years they'll start saying that is sexist to have specific gymnastic exercises for men and women and do the beam for men and the rings for women

As it stands at the moment though, I can only think of the floor exercise where I think a biological woman might have an advantage. I'm not convinced the rings or pommel horse would favour a biological female.

@Florabritannica

I find the lack of balance in the discussion, from the supposedly impartial BBC, deeply shocking. Renee Richards was 43 when she lost to Virginia Wade FFS.

Martina Navratilova said she only 'scraped past ' Richards when he was 43. She was in her prime then. Didn't Richards himself conclude recently that it is unfair for TW to compete v biological Females?

is this going to be on any channel? keen to watch

Live here: www.hesgoal.com/news/83364/Olympic_Games_Tokyo_----_CH_4.html